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OpenClaw is changing my life

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Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#491
post #358

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people make extraordinary claims, I expect extraordinary proofs… Also, there is nothing complex in a C compiler. As students we built these things as toy projects at uni, without any knowledge of software development practices. Yet, to bring an example for something that's more than a toy project: 1 person coded this video editor with AI help: https://github.com/Sportinger/MasterSelects

From the linked project: > The reality: 3 weeks in, ~50 hours of coding, and I'm mass-producing features faster than I can stabilize them. Things break. A lot. But when it works, it works.

[deleted]

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only for the first ~10kloc. After that the AI, no matter how well you try to prompt it, will start to destroy existing features accidentally I am using them in projects with >100kloc, this is not my experience. at the moment, I am babysitting for any kloc, but I am sure they will get better and better.

Meanwhile, in the grandparent comment: > Somehow 90% of these posts don't actually link to the amazing projects that their author is supposedly building with AI. You are in the 90%.

I think this is unfair, they could be referring to proprietary projects at their job or something.

When you create a blog post about it though, I do agree that showing the projects will greatly increase the value of your claims.

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#493
post #165

I have always failed to understand the obsessive dream of many engineers to become managers. It seems not to have to do merely with an increase in revenue. Is it really to escape from "getting bogged down in the specifics" and being able to "focus on the higher-level, abstract work", to quote OP's words? I thought naively that engineering always has been about dealing with the specifics and the joy of problem solving…

> My guess is that the drive is toward power Not really for me. Programming is an effort type job. The more effort you put in the more you get out. True in other professions sure but multiplied with dev work. When became a dad everything changed. Solve hard problem or spend time with kid. I couldn't juggle the two. So i made a choice and fortunately had an opportunity to move into management. Anyway full circle now I…

Are you saying you were forced to go into management because you felt like you couldn't be an effective engineer without working overtime? I'm confused. That sounds more like your work environment was terrible

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#494
post #314
post #165

I have always failed to understand the obsessive dream of many engineers to become managers. It seems not to have to do merely with an increase in revenue. Is it really to escape from "getting bogged down in the specifics" and being able to "focus on the higher-level, abstract work", to quote OP's words? I thought naively that engineering always has been about dealing with the specifics and the joy of problem solving…

It has nothing to do with power. I just want to build bigger, cooler things, faster.

It sounds more like you want to have bigger, cooler things, not build them? The joy of building is what the person you're replying to is talking about AI abstracting away

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#495
post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My guess is that the drive is toward power Not really for me. Programming is an effort type job. The more effort you put in the more you get out. True in other professions sure but multiplied with dev work. When became a dad everything changed. Solve hard problem or spend time with kid. I couldn't juggle the two. So i made a choice and fortunately had an opportunity to move into management. Anyway full circle now I…

Are you saying you were forced to go into management because you felt like you couldn't be an effective engineer without working overtime? I'm confused. That sounds more like your work environment was terrible

You're spot on. And maybe I've only ever worked in terrible eng environments which is an interesting thought for me. I'll have to reflect on this. Sounds like you've had the opposite experience?

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#496

This was incredibly vague and a waste of time. What type of code? What types of tools? What sort of configuration? What messaging app? What projects? It answers none of these questions.

I am somewhat worried that this is the moment AI psychosis has come for programmers.

Yes. Programmers might be especially susceptible precisely because our advanced understanding makes us think we cannot be easily fooled.

But we are also easier to impress: only we understand how difficult it is to one-shot code a working app.

AI psychosis sets in when AI captures enough of your perception to alter your reality. Programmers might be "smarter", but we give AI a bigger set of tools to capture our perception with.

And then there's the fact that we want to be fooled.

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#497
post #250
post #165

I have always failed to understand the obsessive dream of many engineers to become managers. It seems not to have to do merely with an increase in revenue. Is it really to escape from "getting bogged down in the specifics" and being able to "focus on the higher-level, abstract work", to quote OP's words? I thought naively that engineering always has been about dealing with the specifics and the joy of problem solving…

As an engineer, I can never actually let a system write code on behalf of me with the level of complacency I've accumulated over the years. I always have opinionated design decisions, variable naming practices. It's memorable, relatable, repeatable across N projects. Sure, you can argue that you can feed all this into the context, but I've found most models to hallucinate and make things unnecessarily opaque and comp…

> I always have opinionated design decisions, variable naming practices

That's the source of your difficulty. Research wu-wei.

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find that characterization of Grey and the Cortex podcast to be weird. He never claims to be a productivity master or the most productive person around. Quite the opposite, he has said multiple times how much he is not naturally productive, and how he actually kinda dislikes working in general. The systems and habits are the ways he found to essentially trick himself into working. Which I think is what peopl…

> Which I think is what people gather from him, but somehow think he's hiding it or pretending is not the case? Which I find strange, given how openly he's talked about it. Well the person you're responding to didn't say anything like that. They're saying he's unqualified. > The systems and habits are the ways he found to essentially trick himself into working. And do they work ? If he's failing or fooling himself th…

> Well the person you're responding to didn't say anything like that. They're saying he's unqualified.

When they said "It's the appearance of productivity, not actual productivity.", that does very much sound to me like an accusation that he is pretending or trying to deceive you into thinking he's a super productive person.

> And do they work? If he's failing or fooling himself then a big chunk of his podcasting is wasting everyone's time.

I'm afraid I'm not close enough to Mr Grey to be able to confidently say one way or another. Everything seems to indicate that he is a fairly successful individual, as a YouTuber with a big following and founder of at least two companies that seems to be going pretty well. So unless he is incredibly lucky and keeps failing upwards, if I had to guess, I'd say he has had at least some success in making himself work on stuff from time to time.

> I looked at a video from last year and one from eight years ago and they're pretty similar in production value. Lengths seem similar over time too

Really? I mean, let's look at some concrete examples. His latest video [1] features many unique drawings, extensive animations, even some 3d stuff with the rotating globes, and almost every scene has an actual drawn background layer.

Meanwhile, one of his biggest videos from 9 years ago [2] is pretty much just a slideshow, with no animations, and most of the video features a static generic white background.

The overarching style (i.e. stick figures, no elaborate textures) is the same, and I guess this is a partially a subjective point, but I think it's a bit crazy to say the visuals in these two videos are of similar quality.

For an example of stuff other than just the animation itself, he put out the Rock Paper Scissors video [3] two years ago, which had a pretty insane huge scope (though that might not be obvious at first glance)

> I can see he's done three members-only videos in the last two years, in addition to four and a half public videos. Is there anything else?

By definition, I'm not aware of stuff he's not made public. I just know that there is stuff that he chooses not to talk much about (he never once mentioned the Standard stuff on his podcast, for example). He also handles a good portion of the backend stuff for the Cortex Brand line of products (I think managing/planning logistics/inventory?). I'm not a member of his channel or his Patreon so I can't tell you how much he invests in exclusive videos, or if there is some other work he discloses over those channels that he doesn't in others.

[1] https://youtu.be/HSRmfNDk87s?si=lORnzazCWoe2X4Xa

[2] https://youtu.be/rStL7niR7gs?si=1_225YkqRact1Wgm

[3] https://youtu.be/PmWQmZXYd74?si=xEgxikMwCxNfinc3

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a different take on winning then me? In engineering the only teams that win are the teams that ship code. Dealing with coaching, ownership, feelings, politics, etc, should all arrive at the same outcome: ship code.

Perhaps they have a different take on engineering than you. Shipping code is not the end goal of engineering. In fact, more code you ship more liability you have. Main goal is solving problems. > Engineering is the practice of [...] solve problems within technology, increase efficiency and productivity, and improve systems. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineering

I agree with what you're saying and I didn't mean to insinuate I believe that we should ship just for the sake of shipping. I don't. But thats not the reality I've participated in. I think about story points a lot. Whats the point? So leadership has insight into what the dev team is doing. And they can plan, based on point size, what will be shipped. Not all the time does the release include solved problems. A lot of times it is fluff that does create new liabilities. How many of us have shipped and had to maintain a feature that the customer never even wanted? I definitely have.

Re: OpenClaw is changing my life

#500
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s where it really shines. I have a backlog of small projects (-1-2kLOC type state machines , sensors, loggers) and instead of spending 2-3 days I can usually knock them out in half a day. So they get done. On these projects, it is an infinity improvement because I simply wouldn’t have done them, unable to justify the cost. But on bigger stuff, it bogs down and sometimes I feel like I’m going nowhere. But it gets…

I’ve developed a similar sense about maintainability becoming more important with LLMs. I have no hard data. Just feels that way. Can you elaborate a little bit on how you get the LLM to produce maintainable code? Any tricks other than better prompting?

Just explicitly prioritize separation of concerns, with strict API modularity between them. Breaking everything into single concern chunks with good APIs. It’s less about re-use, and more about containment . Documentation, and testability. Also invest more time in ensuring that your data structures are a mirror of the solution space. That will pay huge dividends with better code.

These things have alerted been true, but now they also enable AI development so instead of accumulating technical debt for expedience sake, we get paid an efficiency subsidy in productivity for doing it right. ( or rather for herding the gerbils to do it right)

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