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France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

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Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#491

Post by qball »

epolanski wrote: post #424
shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

France is the only country in Europe and likely the world that builds anything defense related in France. Pistols, machine guns, aircrafts, ships, helicopters, etc, it's all french.

The big stuff, sure, but the French state's small-arms capacity (while once impressive) has atrophied to the point of non-existence.

They rely on the Germans (and to a point, Czechs) to supply their military these days.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#492

Post by BiteCode_dev »

shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

Even worse than most people realize: https://www.bitecode.dev/p/the-eu-can-be-shut-down-with-a-fe...

That includes:

Dependency on US-hosted digital services (emails, chat, calendars, ticket systems, online editors, file hosting, sync services, payment providers) — e.g., Gmail, Google Docs.

Dependency on third-party authentication providers — e.g., login via Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, GitHub, and iCloud on iPhones.

Dependency on US cloud infrastructure providers — e.g., companies relying on Amazon Web Services (AWS) and Microsoft Azure.

Dependency through supply chain partners who rely on US tech — e.g., digitization partners using AWS/Azure impacting invoice processing.

Dependency on US-based business IT software and data services — e.g., banks using Microsoft LDAP, accountants using Dropbox, telecoms storing data in Oracle data lakes.

Dependency on US-controlled operating systems on user devices — e.g., Windows, macOS, iOS, Android.

Dependency on US-designed chips in most devices — e.g., Qualcomm, Intel, AMD, Nvidia, Apple chip hardware.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#493

Post by herbst »

pyuser583 wrote: post #365
shevy-java wrote: post #192

Makes sense. This software dependency that Europe has on the USA is very, very bad - no just with regards to Zoom, but literally anything. The US corporations are forced by law to always prioritize whoever represents the current US government, and the current US government will remain hostile as long as it is in charge; but even afterwards it is quite logical to assume that any follow-up government will prioritize US…

You're basically saying Western European countries' relationships with the US haven't changed much since the Cold War.

I wouldn't agree to that. However we are in the middle of a new cold war since orange guy the first and pretty much manifested it with orange guy the second.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#495

Post by herbst »

GaryBluto wrote: post #177
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

Yet they all are just whiny when they voted for this, and would likely do it again and have no hesitation to do anything against it.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#496

Post by herbst »

epolanski wrote: post #430
GaryBluto wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so strange reading all these comments from Americans begging to be punished for collective misdeeds. It reads as unsettlingly masochistic.

I think the general vibe is more of a "let's learn a small lesson now than a severe one long term". I'm an eu freelancer, most of my clients are quitting US SaaS and cloud offerings, albeit slowly.

When orange man started to make up tarifs I figured it's easier to just quit any dependency I had to the US than to keep with with that bullshit. Took half a day and my infrastructure is more stable than it ever was.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#497

Post by herbst »

hunterpayne wrote: post #453
epolanski wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the general vibe is more of a "let's learn a small lesson now than a severe one long term". I'm an eu freelancer, most of my clients are quitting US SaaS and cloud offerings, albeit slowly.

So story time. About 8 years ago, most of corporate America tried to do this. It was called the ad-pocalypse. They came crawling back to SV in less than 2 months. Turns out, the correct response to an organized (politically based) pressure campaign is to tell them to pound sand. When your customers see the dev bill (what it costs to make software that actually works and doesn't get its secrets stolen), they will do t…

That time is over tho. Hosting, Protection and co is often cheaper, more reliable and less influenced by random orange decisions for a while now. Not to mention actually existing privacy and customer protection laws.

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#498

Post by internet_points »

Zigurd wrote: post #98
larsnystrom wrote: post #38

There seems to be a huge business opportunity in Europe right now, to sell support and customization of open source software to government players. Has anyone heard about a European company that’s been successful in this area?

I had an occasion to speak to some of the wire.com people a couple years ago. They seemed to be really dedicated to security and privacy.

Can you do audio calls with their free plan? They say no "audio conferencing", but I see a call button. And if I get the SMB plan, can I invite externals to a video conference or do I then have to pay for plans for them as well?

Re: France dumps Zoom and Teams as Europe seeks digital autonomy from the US

#499

Post by herbst »

yesimahuman wrote: post #348
tyre wrote: post #23

As an American, this is awesome to see. We should pay penalties for our abandonment of good faith global engagement. And economic damage really is the key to the heart of these United States of Three Corporations in a Trench Coat. We’ve seen companies and CEOs paying millions in bribes to be close to the president. Now this aligns their financial interests with shifting our foreign policy. Not how it ought to work, b…

Yep, and watching many of my peers in tech get red pilled and vote for this administration, or even be active participants in it, has been very hard to stomach. Financial penalties might be the only thing that gets them to realize the error of their ways

We all know that the next guy is likely going to be much worse, and if it's not the next guy it will be the one afterwards. This shithole of country has a brutally bad track record of dealing with their own problems in a reasonable fashion
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