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Eat Real Food

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Re: Eat Real Food

#491
post #55

How is it possible that beef, dairy, and chicken are front and center while Lentils, Tofu (or even just soy), Chickpeas, Nutritional Yeast, Broccoli, etc are all left off? Why do they arbitrarily split "protein" and "fruit/veg" given that most/all of the most protein dense foods are vegetables/legumes? Steak is a terrible source of protein (in terms of nutrient density). Immediately pretty suspicious.

And bananas and oatmeal at the bottom.

I guess one way to solve the elderly entitlement crisis is if we all just start dropping dead from heart attacks.

Re: Eat Real Food

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of red meat is probably one angle I can’t get behind. They are very high in cholesterol and triglycerides which are deadly for the heart over the long haul.

Is pretty clear that eating cholesterol doesn't lead to higher blood cholesterol. It just doesn't matter.

No, doctors still recommend limiting the intake of cholesterol in food, and also saturated fat. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol#Medical_guidelines...

https://www.heart.org/en/news/2023/08/25/heres-the-latest-on...

Re: Eat Real Food

#493

Speaking from personal experience, this is consistent with multiple doctors over the years recommending high-protein, low carb diets. (Clarification: low does not mean no carb.) I don't understand people freaking out over this - outside of a purely political reflex - hell hath no fury like taking away nerds' Mountain Dew and Flamin' Hot Cheetos. Nor do I understand the negative reactions to new restrictions on SNAP -…

Nutrition science has come up with acceptable macronutrient distribution ranges (AMDR). The recommendation for adults is 45-65% of total calories from carbohydrates, 20-35% from fat, and 10-35% from protein. That is definitely not low carb. The sources of those macronutrients also matter. The ideal range for saturated fat is 5-10% of total calories. Meat consumption, especially red meat, is associated with higher ris…

To be fair, those macronutrient guidelines were established not because of any special properties of those macros (give or take the nitrogen load from protein) but because when applied as a population-level intervention they encourage sufficient fiber, magnesium, potassium, etc. You can have 50% of your calories be from fats and still live a long, healthy life, and you can do so as a population (see, e.g. Crete and some other Mediterranean sub-regions in the early/mid-1900s). You can have a much higher protein intake and have beneficial outcomes too.

Your point about the sources mattering isn't tangential; it's the entire point. The reason the AMDR exists is to encourage good sources. A diet of 65% white sugar and 25% butter isn't exactly what it had in mind though, and it's those sources you want to scrutinize more heavily.

Even for red meat though, when you control for cohort effects, income, and whatnot, and examine just plain red meat without added nitrites or anything, the effect size and study power diminishes to almost nothing. It's probably real, but it's not something I'm especially concerned about (I still don't eat much red meat, but that's for unrelated reasons).

To put the issue to scale, if you take the 18% increased risk in colorectal cancer from red meats as gospel (ignoring my assertions that it's more important to avoid hot dogs than lean steaks), or, hell, let's double that to 36%, your increased risk of death from the intervention of adding a significant portion of red meat to your diet is only half as impactful as the intervention of adding driving to your daily activities.

The new guidelines seem to be better than just recommending more steaks anyway. They're not perfect, but I've seen worse health advice.

Re: Eat Real Food

#494

Diet advice is always way too complex. For most people ‘stop drinking sugary drinks ever’ would probably make the biggest life change. And ‘the athletes plate’ would be the runner up bit of advice if you want something simple - half th plate veggies, 1/4 complex carbs, 1/4 unprocessed meat. If you want to do it with complexity, count your macros.

Agreed. I’m all for the government trying to help by setting/updating guidlines and I actually agree with the guidelines but ultimately any general advice boils down to - eat a balanced diet of whole grains fruits vegetables and meat, and don’t eat so much of it, just enough to feel full. IMO any specifics on what specifically to/to not eat isn’t helpful unless it’s tailored specifically to someone’s lifestyle.

Basically like you said, telling someone to not drink sugary drinks, stop eating out as much as possible and be more active is the only general advice really needed

Re: Eat Real Food

#495
I would love to see some evidence for the huge increase in protein on this new pyramid. I'm not challenging it, I'm genuinely curious if there's substantial evidence that a lot of it is actually good for most people.

Re: Eat Real Food

#496
post #435

Unfortunately there seems to be no good aligned definition of what (highly) processed food is. 1,2 Whole grain bread or infant formula can be “highly processed” despite very healthy. In the end someone else cooks for you and packages it. They can cook healthy or not or in between, add a lot of salt or little, .. as always it’s more complex. 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-022-01099-1 2 https://www.cambridge…

They can also be a machine that might add a non-negligible amount of mineral oils and possibly other stuff to your food. The guideline to use should be that the ingredient list should be as short as possible. If it has more than 5 ingredients, that's already incredibly suspicious in my opinion. The problem is that some stuff (like a mineral oil contamination) doesn't even have to be declared on the ingredient list. F…

This is my personal approach too. I stock things with fewest number of ingredients. Example that comes to mind: RXBar might be UPF but there’s not much in it. Compared to your average name brand protein bar or granola bar.

Re: Eat Real Food

#497

I own and run a CPG beverage company. This is a good start. A start. The folks at the top, including RFK Jr. are still captured by big industry. We need to get off of corn syrup, artificial ingredients, and harmful preservatives. That said, food deserts still exist, and real whole food is expensive, especially in a time of dire economic stress. I thought that's what subsidies were for, but apparently they are for enr…

> That said, food deserts still exist, and real whole food is expensive, especially in a time of dire economic stress. I can still routinely get potatoes in season at 20c/lb, carrots in season at 40c/lb, bananas at 60c/lb, dried legumes at $1/lb or not much more, frozen ground meat in the ballpark of $3/lb, eggs for less than $4/dz (almost as much protein as a pound of fatty meat), boneless skinless chicken breast un…

Sounds like you like pretty close to or in an urban/metro area.

Food deserts still exist all over the US. And likely in Canada, too - you're less likely to have the same options in Toronto, Vancouver or Montreal as opposed to say, Nunavut or Yukon.

The issue here is that you specified in-season. The problem with food at scale is that humans are impatient, and want what they want regardless of season. We don't have seasonality in this day and age in the US outside of small things like pumpkins or gourds. Fruits are expected to be available year round.

Your food standards are WAY higher than ours (I say this jealously). Your government gives a fuck about its population. Ours does not.

Re: Eat Real Food

#498
Something this does not actually seem to address is that even our “real food” is also polluted with massive glyphosate. And no, it is also something that is a massive problem in Europe, including meat, which does not get as regulated as vegetables and fruits, so levels can often be even higher.

This young woman did an excellent explanation of the overall state of things in a YouTube video, for anyone that wants an intro. https://youtu.be/s64PNMAK92c

Re: Eat Real Food

#499
Why would I even pay attention to guidelines from a government that wants to make political warfare in everything when the worldwide consensus on healthy diet is the so called Mediterranean Diet?

The world needs less America. Even in food guidelines.

Re: Eat Real Food

#500

Unfortunately there seems to be no good aligned definition of what (highly) processed food is. 1,2 Whole grain bread or infant formula can be “highly processed” despite very healthy. In the end someone else cooks for you and packages it. They can cook healthy or not or in between, add a lot of salt or little, .. as always it’s more complex. 1: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41430-022-01099-1 2 https://www.cambridge…

> In the end someone else cooks for you and packages it.

I think someone else cooking for you isn't the problem, the problem is at "packages it". Because, when you cook something at home, it's good for a few days to a week -- but food processors effectively always need various additives to keep the food shelf-stable for long enough for it to go factory -> warehouse -> store -> your house -> your meal. There are definitely exceptions (eg raisins are dried grapes, end of story) but generally this is the problem.

> Whole grain bread... very healthy.

Are you sure? Ever noticed how when you bake bread at home, it's basically 4 days on the counter before it's inedible, right? Yet commercial bread lasts for weeks.. ever wondered why that is?

As for processed food in general, I could be wrong, but my mental exercise goes along the lines of "would my great-grandma know what this is?" Eggs, butter, milk, fruits, vegetables, flour, rice, meat, fish, etc etc. But if it has an ingredients list and a nutrition label.. probably best to avoid making it a staple of your diet. Yes, I get it, cooking is a pain in the ass and everyone hates "the dinner problem", but IMO it's worth it for your health.

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