Live data from Hacker News

Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

digitalsociety.coop

491–500 of 643 posts

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#491
post #332
post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a link to some proof that chat gpt is patching servers running databases with no down time or data loss?

I think the argument is that dev with some vibe coding can successfully setup servers that are good enough already for 10x less cost and 95% reliability

This is an extremely bold statement to make. Vibe coding by a non-expert is the best way to introduce hard to find security issues.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the S3 API is like chopping onions, the more you do it, the faster you start crying.

Haha! My only “yes, but…” is that this: > 50k API calls per second (on S3 that is $20-$250 _per second_ on API calls!). kind of smells like abuse of S3. Without knowing the use case, maybe a different AWS service is a better answer? Not advocating for AWS, just saying that maybe this is the wrong comparison. Though I do want to learn about Hetzner.

Why would it be abuse? Serving e.g. map tiles on a busy site can get up to tens of thousands of qps, I'd have thought serving that from S3 would have made sense if it weren't so expensive.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the cost of running Neo4j on aws vs using aws Neptune? Related to disk I/o?

Tbh, I don't know. For us the switching cost alone would be pretty high. That said ongoing maintenance is pretty high as well.

Just want to chime in. Zhenni, cofounder of PuppyGraph. We created the first graph query engine that can sit on top of your relational databases (think Postgres, Iceberg, Delta lake, etc.), and query your relational data as a graph using Cypher and Gremlin, without any ETL or a separate graphdb needed. It's much more lightweight and easy to spin up. Because we sit on top of column based storage and our compute engine is distributed, we can achieve subsecond query speed across 1 billion nodes. Please check it out!

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#494
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't want to do this yourself, then we'll do it for you for half the price of AWS (and we'll be your DevOps team too You might not realize but you are actually increasing the business case for AWS :-) Also those hardware savings will be eaten away by two days of your hourly bill. I like to look at my project costs across all verticals...

I understand the concern for sure. But we don't bill hourly in that way, as one thing our clients really appreciate is predictable costs. The fixed monthly price already includes engineering time to support your team.

[deleted]

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#495
The executives at will not allow bare metal or other alternatives anytime soon because either most of them have drunk the AWS/Azure koolaid or AWS/Azure has already bought out the Rolodex of most of these companies by the 1) promise of hiring senior tech leadership if they drink the koolaid 2) influence of previous executives who accepted roles at Amazon.

You've gotta hand it to Amazon for their strategy.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, cloud adoption was driven by teams having to wait 2 years for capex for their hardware purchase and then getting a quarter of what they asked for. You couldn't get things, people hoarded servers they pretended to be using because when they did need something they couldn't get it. Management just wouldn't approve budgets so you were stuck using too little hardware. On the cloud it takes five seconds to get a new m…

And now, on cloud it’s the same but much more expensive and worse performance. We’ve been struggling for over a month to get a single (1) non-beefy non-GPU VM allocated on Azure, since they’ve been having insane capacity issues, to the extent that even “provisioned” capacity cannot be fulfilled ;-(

Sure, but that’s because Azure. I’m sorry someone made the decision to go there. AWS & GCP, stock outs at least used to be nearly unheard of.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha! My only “yes, but…” is that this: > 50k API calls per second (on S3 that is $20-$250 _per second_ on API calls!). kind of smells like abuse of S3. Without knowing the use case, maybe a different AWS service is a better answer? Not advocating for AWS, just saying that maybe this is the wrong comparison. Though I do want to learn about Hetzner.

Why would it be abuse? Serving e.g. map tiles on a busy site can get up to tens of thousands of qps, I'd have thought serving that from S3 would have made sense if it weren't so expensive.

I don’t know much about map tiles… but could that be done more effectively through a CDN or cache, and then have S3 behind it?

Then the CDN takes the beating. So this still sounds like S3 abuse to me.

But I leave room for being wrong here.

Edit: presumably if your site is big enough to serve 50k RPS it’s big enough for a cache?

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya but then you need to pay for a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch. The salaries of those professionals , really only make sense for a certain sized organization. I still think small-midsized orgs may be better off in cloud for security / operations cost optimization.

That used to be the case until recently. As much as neither I nor you want to admit it -- the truth is ChatGPT can handle 99% of what you would pay for "a team to maintain network and continually secure and monitor the server and update/patch." Infact, ChatGPT surpasses them as it is all encompassing. Any company now can simply pay for OpenAI's services and save the majority of the money they would have spent on the,…

I would pay you 100x that amount monthly to perform those services, as long as you assume the risk. If you're convinced this is viable, you should start a business :)

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#499

I cannot overstate the performance improvement of deploying onto bare metal. We typically see a doubling of performance, as well as extremely predictable baseline performance. This is down to several things: - Latency - having your own local network, rather than sharing some larger datacenter network fabric, gives around of order of magnitude reduced latency - Caches – right-sizing a deployment for the underlying har…

Yup, I hope to god we are moving past the age of 'everything's fast if you have enough machines' and 'money is not real' era of software development. I remember the point in my career when I moved from a cranky old .NET company, where we handled millions of users from a single cabinent's worth of beefy servers, to a cloud based shop where we used every cloud buzzword tech under the sun (but mainly everything was cont…

However old, .NET Framework was still using a decent JIT compiler with a statically typed language, powerful GC and a fully multi-threaded environment :)

Of course Node could not compete, and the cost had to be paid for each thinly sliced microservice carrying heavy runtime alongside it.

Re: Migrating from AWS to Hetzner

#500
I get the point. But those are incomparable. Hyperscalers don't compete on price, they compete on scale and services offered. The compliance, the security, the support, the integrations, the backups.

Can you host your own object storage open source software, key vault OSS, VPN, queue service, container registry, logging, host your own Postgres/MySQL? Sure, but you will need to research what is best, what is supported, keep it maintained, make sure to update it and that those updates don't break anything, wake up in the middle of the night when it breaks, make sure it's secure. And you would still need to handle access control across those services. And you would still need a 3rd party service for DDoS protection, likely CDN too. And you would likely need some identity provider.

Post reply on HN