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Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

express.co.uk

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Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#491

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

gethly wrote: post #484
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But also, Internet with zero governance isn't any better for the people. So what's left?

Are you sure? Back in late 90s, 2000s, even 2010s, the internet was truly awesome. Only once governments started to get involved, by increasing the red tape and adding restrictions and whatnot, it became shit. So I would argue that you are completely wrong. Yes, it might have been a bit of a wild west, but that is a good thing because you needed to have some smarts to navigate it and that filtered out the dumb masses…

> So I would argue that you are completely wrong.

You could argue that, but it would be idiotic. It would be deeply and deliberately ignorant of e.g. Facebook complicity in ethnic massacres in Myanmar. Cambridge Analytica. Youtube as an engine of algorithmic radicalisation. The continued extremism on what was once Twitter. Online anti-vax disinformation. QAnon. All of Truth Social.

You posit it as "people vs governments" but that is not the reality. There is a third force. "The people" don't run the internet any more. A few incredibly wealthy oligarchs control most of it, and this trend is strengthening. Elon. Zuck. Jeff. Satya. Sergey. Rupert. You know who I mean from one or two syllables each and that's telling. This state of affairs requires government inaction as power consolidates.

> But most people, actually, have not lived through those "early" days

I have been online since the mid 1990s, so whatever point you might be trying to make doesn't apply to me.

The idea that "Government red tape ruined the internet" is just nonsense.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#492

Post by vintermann »

smashah wrote: post #391
flir wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Wikipedia would take one for the team, and go dark in the UK. (And I'm in the UK). Wouldn't work with somewhere like China, but the UK might still be capable of being shamed.

At this point, the UK government is beyond shaming. On the contrary, it shame and record-breaking unpopularity seems to empower them. I wouldn't put it passed them to require the digital ID to access the internet passed curfew.

Something that I think normal, decent people don't appreciate enough: you can join an organization without believing a word of what it stands for. It's perfectly possible to just pretend. It doesn't take a ton of resources or a big coordinated conspiracy to join and betray an organization, it just takes a bit of self-confidence, or chutzpah.

One person I believe knows this, is Keir Starmer. It's very hard to explain why things happen in UK politics without assuming he is trying to tank Labour.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#493

Post by jpfromlondon »

octo888 wrote: post #476
BatteryMountain wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, just ban children from the internet, same as gun ownership for 12yo's. Fine/imprison parents. This is a parenting problem, not a technical/business problem. Remove the supply of children and things will get better. A business cannot make laws or override laws with ToS and invent their own moral compasses - rather it is the sole responsibility of the parent on what their child gets exposed to (whether politics, po…

> The parents have been getting a free pass all this time I totally agree but the UK government – particular Labour – doesn't want people to take responsibility really, because that would take from their own 'power'. There's nothing the UK loves more than a stupid population hooked on benefits and devoid of education, critical thinking and financial freedom.

Not the UK, Labour.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#494

Post by jpfromlondon »

Rebuff5007 wrote: post #486
m101 wrote: post #478

Some may think that harm doesn't matter, but perhaps actual fines are unjustified without the presence of actual harm. And yes, perhaps the rules should be followed regardless of what they are, but perhaps the government bureaucracy is such that it's just too hard to change rules. I'm one to think that the UK is generally overregulated, excessively obsessed with safety, and the regulation ethos is inconsistently appl…

> The government and civil service are also incompetent to the extreme. As someone who moved to the UK from the states recently, this has not been my experience at all. Any paperwork i've had to do with the government (immigration, NHS, drivers license, car tax) has been incredibly smooth. On top of that, the city council in the area I live seems great -- they put on a ton of events, and have lots of services that se…

>recently

38 years with some brief stints abroad, as discrete entities, and providing you are on a well trodden path the state-run institutions are ~fine~.

QUANGOs are the worst to deal with, private is the best.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#495

Post by m101 »

isodev wrote: post #483
m101 wrote: post #478

Some may think that harm doesn't matter, but perhaps actual fines are unjustified without the presence of actual harm. And yes, perhaps the rules should be followed regardless of what they are, but perhaps the government bureaucracy is such that it's just too hard to change rules. I'm one to think that the UK is generally overregulated, excessively obsessed with safety, and the regulation ethos is inconsistently appl…

And perhaps, we should look at this from the PoV of the user and not defend the "company" (which has the advantage in all cases). Screaming "bureaucracy" and "overregulation" for every single attempt at limiting the impact of corporations is just silly.

Yes, so from the point of view of the user was there evidence of actual harm?

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#496

Post by piker »

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #459
flir wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Wikipedia would take one for the team, and go dark in the UK. (And I'm in the UK). Wouldn't work with somewhere like China, but the UK might still be capable of being shamed.

Wikipedia gets a lot of donations from the uk. I’m not sure how many Brits would continue putting £10-100/mo into a charity that explicitly doesn't operate in their borders.

Any stats on this? I'd be surprised if the number of Brits putting £10-100/mo into Wikipedia greatly exceeds 10.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#497

Post by lopis »

dboreham wrote: post #388
flir wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish Wikipedia would take one for the team, and go dark in the UK. (And I'm in the UK). Wouldn't work with somewhere like China, but the UK might still be capable of being shamed.

This has been happening for years but if you're in the US you don't realize. For example I can't access my local Montana newspaper web site from the UK "because GDPR" (even though the UK isn't in the EU).

There are several US news websites that are completely blocked in the EU and UK since GDPR came into effect, because it was easier than caring about data collection. Probably many of them adapted since then, because everyone realized GDPR has no teeth and most websites that are not global platforms are not compliant.

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#499

Post by lkramer »

jpfromlondon wrote: post #493
octo888 wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The parents have been getting a free pass all this time I totally agree but the UK government – particular Labour – doesn't want people to take responsibility really, because that would take from their own 'power'. There's nothing the UK loves more than a stupid population hooked on benefits and devoid of education, critical thinking and financial freedom.

Not the UK, Labour.

Don't pretend the Tories are any better...

Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine

#500

Post by AnthonyMouse »

gambiting wrote: post #471
smashah wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At this point, the UK government is beyond shaming. On the contrary, it shame and record-breaking unpopularity seems to empower them. I wouldn't put it passed them to require the digital ID to access the internet passed curfew.

Tbf, well implemented digital ID would be much preferable to the idiotic situation that we're in now. The emphasis on well implemented.

I still don't understand how someone is supposed to benefit from such a thing. If I want to use some service, I'll sign up for an account with it. The only thing a centralized ID is going to do is let the service correlate me with a different account on a different service, which is exactly the thing that I don't want.

How is someone supposed to benefit from a thing whose only function is to reduce the friction against forcing them to correlate their otherwise-independent activity against their will?

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