This push feels like preparation for a war, and subsequent total control of communication. Nobody hopefully believes it's about children.
ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
491–500 of 656 posts
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#492Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…
> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. (...) You have neither the pen nor the sword. We still have Euros. As long as enough companies and rich folk are more on our side than theirs, the government still has some incentive to serve us. I know, I know - money and politics, wealth and power, they go together at the high end. But there is the oft forgotten long tail, the rich and powerful at the scale of a city, a ne…
Euros? Fiat currency that can be taxed or diluted. Cash is becoming increasingly difficult to use in a lot of countries.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#493Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…
> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. (...) You have neither the pen nor the sword. We still have Euros. As long as enough companies and rich folk are more on our side than theirs, the government still has some incentive to serve us. I know, I know - money and politics, wealth and power, they go together at the high end. But there is the oft forgotten long tail, the rich and powerful at the scale of a city, a ne…
Really? There is a reason why Europeans are jokingly called "Europoors".
Even the upper middle class in Europe is poor as hell with barely any savings.
When have companies and rich folk ever been on ANYONE's side but their own?
Your arguments are terribly naive.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing that is crazy to me is that they choose to go after Signal of all things. Certainly there would be higher priority targets than a messaging app that has no social networking features to speak of, if child predators were really the target here.
This is nonsense. Anyone who has the smallest clue would use Signal for anything sensitive. Of course people would use Signal to talk about illegal stuff. I am against ChatControl. But I am amazed by all the bullshit arguments that people find to criticise ChatControl. If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals. That's not the question at all. The question is: what is the cost to society? A fe…
> If you have more control, obviously it's easier to track criminals.
So why are criminals not being tracked? Seems like there's a shit ton of cameras everywhere but stores are still locking everything valuable behind glass. The benefits of this stuff never seem to materialize in practice.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#495Very liberal.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
>You can't even organize a resistance because all channels of communication are monitored. One of the awful things about this proposed legislation is that what I quoted you saying is not true. Software like PGP is easy to use, and criminals already do. The government has absolutely no possibility of breaking RSA the way things are now, and as such scanning all messages will do nothing other than prove more definitive…
Both apple and android are teeing their infra up to support deleting apps they don’t like. Windows is moving towards e2e attestation, and Mac is basically already there. Once that’s all done, you just need to enforce hardware manufacturers boot only into ‘trusted’ operating systems. No more Linux. No more unsigned execution. No more encryption.
Won’t happen.
There is way too much existing deployed systems depending on alternative open source systems, and a mn incentive to use them to keep using old hardware.
And way too strong a strategic incentive not to depend on US tech alone.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most victims of child abuse know their aggressor because it is part of their social circle: dad, mother, uncle, brother, sport coach or a friend of the parents/sibling.
Most, not all of them. Or are you saying that we should not care about the others?
It's impossible to stop all crime without an all-encompassing surveillance state. At some point you have to set boundaries for what the state is allowed to do in the name of safety.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#498This was precisely some of the motivation behind pushing RCS onto Apple. The RCS spec has a termination point between providers -- a great spot to read some data for telecom providers and government agencies. Despite this, RCS is called "End to End" all the time. It's not. Use Signal or iMessage, depending on your security choices in iCloud.
RCS is not called “end to end” by anyone - even Apple and Google explicitly state it’s not currently E2E encrypted. Apple has pledged to add e2ee to RCS on iPhones but they’re never claimed it’s that way today. They go out of their way to warn you it’s not the same level of security as iMessage.
I agree Apple has been clear on this point. There isn't even a finalized spec for e2e that crosses device manufacturers and cell providers as far as I'm aware.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#499Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…
> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. (...) You have neither the pen nor the sword. We still have Euros. As long as enough companies and rich folk are more on our side than theirs, the government still has some incentive to serve us. I know, I know - money and politics, wealth and power, they go together at the high end. But there is the oft forgotten long tail, the rich and powerful at the scale of a city, a ne…
>1) Life, especially in the EU, is not like in an American action movie;
Only because of the immense wealth, freedom and culture brought by generations of struggle and tenacity. If it isn't defended, it can go away quickly, but the current generation probably won't bear the costs. I doubt that Europeans in the 22nd c. will enjoy such a comfortable life, though.
Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the cost of the proposal is "let's throw democracy under the bus" as it is in this case, it better be damn close to 100% effective to be worth it! I have a hard time imagining this will be more than 10% effective. This proposal is a joke
A few decades ago, all communications were unencrypted. Would you say that democracies did not exist then?
Encryption is not the only privacy assurance that exists in democracies. For example, the government is (or at least was[1]) not allowed to open your mail. You could send CSAM Polaroids back and forth and nothing would happen.
Chat Control amounts to routine, warrantless interception of private communication. Something you see in states like the USSR.
[1] https://www.westernstandard.news/news/liberals-push-bill-to-...