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Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

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Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#491

Post by flyinglizard »

logicchains wrote: post #188
tgma wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The sanctions on the Mullah regime have prevented financing of more proxies. There is a direct correlation between loosening enforcement and lifting such sanctions and increased support for Hezbollah, Hamas, etc. It's preposterous to claim that they do not work.

>The sanctions on the Mullah regime have prevented financing of more proxies. Less funding of proxies just means Israel gets away with killing more civilians without consequence.

Well, lets see how that worked out:

1. Hamas, an Iranian proxy, attacked Israel on October 7th 2023. Until that time, the death toll in the 100 years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict was about 10k Israels to 40k Palestinians. It since became 12k Israelis to 110k Palestinians. I don't think that proxy fulfilled its intention.

2. Hezbollah, another Iranian proxy, attacked Israel on October 8th in support of Hamas. The ensuing war killed about 4k Lebanese. That proxy, too, seems to have failed in its mission to reduce the death tol..

3. The Houthis, yet another Iranian proxy, attacked Israel in support of Gaza. Since then, Israeli counter attacks killed several hundreds in Yemen. Not good.

Now these proxies are heavily damaged, deprived of most strategic capabilities and the death toll in the ensuing battles dwarfed all of the past deaths in the Israeli-Arab conflict.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#492

Post by petre »

chabska wrote: post #221
adastra22 wrote: post #20

OP, some context from the other side might be helpful. Yes, there are fines for American companies if they do business with Iranians. That's how sanctions work as I'm sure you're aware. But the story doesn't stop there. If an American finds out they are transacting with a sanctioned individual, or citizens of a sanctioned country like Iran or North Korea, the stakes go up: $1M USD fine and up to 20 years in federal p…

> Nobody should be expected to take that risk I've seen this sentiment so many times from westerners. You all say this, and yet at the same time you levy economic sanctions on countries like Iran, Cuba, and North Korea, with the justification that by making their citizens lives horrific, you encourage them to rise against their government. Their authoritarian militaristic government that doesn't care for human rights…

Well, that's too bad. Lifting sanctions opens up opportunities for non-alligned government spies and saboteurs. I recall there is a problem with remote workers from the DPRK employed by Western companies. These citizens are already collectively punished by their governments. I used to live in such a country until the US managed to lead on the USSR into bankrupting themselves. Thank you, America! Thank you Ronald Reagan for all the USSR jokes! Thank you Michael Gorbachev for letting it slide!

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#493

Post by gruez »

m000 wrote: post #396
holowoodman wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Low turnout means non-voters just don't care, or that they find no palpable option on the ballot sheet. In any case, the non-voters are OK with whatever party might win, because otherwise they should have made their vote or created a political party that might be agreeable to them.

You are just rationalizing a deeply undemocratic process. These are the exact self-serving arguments that the winners make to legitimize a fundamendally unpopular government. Also, in practice, no, you cannot make a political party in Greece. There's a country-wide threshold of 3% that you need to exceed to get into the parliament. A lot of well-organized parties struggle (and often fail) to exceed it. So even if you…

>Also, in practice, no, you cannot make a political party in Greece. There's a country-wide threshold of 3% that you need to exceed to get into the parliament.

You can quibble about whether a 3% threshold is "democratic" or not, but for all practical purposes if your movement can't get 3% you stand no chance of getting your policies enacted.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#494

Post by sfn42 »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #156
sfn42 wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People always say stuff like this, but from my pov it doesn't matter what the populace thinks. They are directly supporting their government with everything they do. They are producing goods and services, they are the army, they are the government, the people are the country. They have the power to choose who rules them if they want to. Nobody else does. Iranians are responsible for Iran's actions just like Russians…

What should they do ? Stop working, or protest and risk getting killed ? It's easy to call for action from your comfortable life. No, the populace does not bear the same responsibility for the country's actions in all countries. Swiss with direct democracy bear much higher responsibility than systematically oppressed populace in other countries.

Well ideally they should peacefully replace the government with one that aligns with the people's alleged views.

Failing that, I don't know. I guess they'll have to figure it out as they go. All I'm saying is it's their country, their responsibility. And for example in the case of Russia there's clearly widespread support for Putin and his war so I'm not really expecting nor calling for them to do anything about it. I'm just saying I hold them responsible and I think the rest of the world should too. A leader is nothing without followers.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#496

Post by flyinglizard »

logicchains wrote: post #389
JamesAdir wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Israel is occupying a piece of land it violently seized by force and ethnic cleansing: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba . The people of Palestine have a right to self defense just like anyone else; exercising that right doesn't make them terrorists.

The notion that Israel was created by force is just not true. Jews were always a part of historical Palestine, and most of the land they inhabited was legally bought, by bodies like the JNF, up until the war of 1948. That war, started by the Arabs, came as a result of the League of Nations declaration of the formation of Israel. It's important to stress that there was never a Palestinian country, nor a cohesive Palestinian nation ahead of the formation of Israel. That historical land was controlled by various empires, and people used to come and go through it quite freely.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#497

Post by cess11 »

ajuc wrote: post #356
cess11 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're there to kill people. It's war by non-military means, and the US is waging such a war on a very large portion of the world. There is a recent study concluding that sanctions kill half a million people per annum: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1... > I don't know what you mean by dictatorship but I'm not exactly adverse to applying the same term to the US, it being a one-party s…

When alcoholic husband beats his wife so they put him in prison and the wife starves - is it the fault of the people who put the husband in prison? Or the fault of the husband for beating his wife and the fault of the wife for staying in that relationship? I get it - it's hard. But you cannot expect the whole world to enable your alcoholic husband/militaristic dictator.

Not sure what your supposed analogy is referring to but I'm all for boycott and sanctions towards the US if that's what you mean.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#498

Post by inetknght »

nanliu wrote: post #476
tuveson wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But even in the US, no one I've ever had the option to vote for (and who had even a remote chance of winning) would ever consider lifting these sanctions. So I am similarly powerless to change this situation. Not saying Obama’s foreign policy was perfect, but he did do the Iran nuclear deal which lifted some sanctions, and started the process of normalizing relations with Cuba. Like so many other things, these were…

Long term foreign relationships cannot be built on top of four year presidential terms. Besides Israel, I'm not sure any country has continuity between recent administrations.

> Long term foreign relationships cannot be built on top of four year presidential terms.

Yes indeed, I agree.

Although: long term foreign relationships certainly can be un-built on top of four year presidential terms. See: current US president and rest-of-the-world.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#499

Post by komali2 »

itake wrote: post #315
pessimizer wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So being an elite who escapes the consequences of what elites have done is a virtue that should be rewarded? Why would people look up to a runner? Most people don't have anywhere else to go, and love where they're from.

The USA is full of people that left their home country with nothing because they disagreed with how their home country is managed. For example, the Vietnamese boat people. I hardly consider that cohort of immigrants 'elite'. Taiwan is another example. Taiwan wouldn't exist if it wasn't for mainlanders voting with their feet. > love where they're from yes. that is the problem...

> Taiwan wouldn't exist if it wasn't for mainlanders voting with their feet.

Woah, woah, the ROC invaded Taiwan with a huge group of armed settler-colonialists, and then initiated a violent martial law on everyone here. The KMT settlers didn't vote with their feet, they imperialised Taiwan and the people here. Taiwan would absolutely exist either way, there would probably have been democracy here a lot sooner if not for the KMT's martial law, since the common thread throughout all 6 decades of their rule, it was non-KMT people (earlier immigrants, indigenous people, and even a few Japanese descendants) that led opposition efforts. Not to mention much of the reason the PRC makes imperialist claims against Taiwan is because of their humiliation that they failed to defeat the KMT utterly, and this country retained the name ROC when it transitioned to democracy in the 90's - the best the opposition could achieve in the face of KMT power.

Really Taiwan makes the opposite case because after the cultural revolution, which is before the beginning of Taiwanese democracy, Taiwanese people could have gone to the PRC and had life there, fleeing martial law, but instead people stayed and worked to overthrow the KMT.

I personally believe packing your shit and heading out is a totally valid action in the face of oppression and fascism, that's why I left the USA after all. I don't think I agree that everyone has a responsibility to risk their lives to overthrow oppressive leaders, the reason I wouldn't stick around though is I won't accept the moral risk of accidentally supporting the regime, which is why for example I don't pay USA taxes anymore.

Re: Delete FROM users WHERE location = 'Iran';

#500

Post by VerminOctopus1 »

miningape wrote: post #360
cess11 wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they're there to kill people. It's war by non-military means, and the US is waging such a war on a very large portion of the world. There is a recent study concluding that sanctions kill half a million people per annum: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/langlo/article/PIIS2214-1... > I don't know what you mean by dictatorship but I'm not exactly adverse to applying the same term to the US, it being a one-party s…

Dress it up however you like, the fact remains that countries can choose to not provide goods and services to whomever they want for whatever reason they want. There's absolutely no moral obligation on an individual in any country to defy these laws and risk prison time - if they want change they can petition, vote and protest. Beyond that the West is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse t…

> The west is not responsible for any deaths caused by governments that refuse to cooperate with us

This US-centric mindset is so disgusting and emblematic of the narcissism of the west. The country has established itself as the most potent force for violence and economic abuse in the world.

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