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Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

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Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#491

Post by bubblethink »

pandaman wrote: post #476
bubblethink wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack is established by a good faith recruitment process, not an exhaustive search. This is intentionally vague because it's a non-sensical requirement that is hard to prove one way or the other and was only added as a political compromise. The company is free to tailor the minimum requirements to its liking. Recall that this is a free capitalistic country. So you can establish that you can't fill the req. locally…

The company is free to tailor the minimum requirements to its liking however it must be able to persuade the government that the job cannot be done without these requirements and a foreigner meets them. If you could just require a Nobel Prize in Physics and 50 years of experience for your PM or JS-jockey job then we would not be seeing articles like this. So I don't see why would you be pointing it out. >and companie…

The "busts" are more theater than anything else. The DOJ also sued companies for not hiring enough immigrants (https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s...) .

>The problem is not "good lawyers" but the fact that the only punishment for breaking the law is a pittance of a settlement.

That's how settlements go. The government gets to do its theater, the constituents believe that the government is fighting for them, and companies write this off as the cost of doing business.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#492

Post by sarchertech »

qwezxcrty wrote: post #418
sarchertech wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an O1 visa for exceptional talent.

In that case some technical aspects needs rework... Currently O1 visa being a nonimmigrant visa have no path to PR/citizenship (unlike H1Bs) and need annual renewal. This make it unattractive to "who possess extraordinary ability".

You can apply for an EB-1A greencard or a national interest waiver green card while on an O1 visa.

You can also get an employer sponsored green card similarly to what you’d do if you were on an H-1B.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#493

Post by lazide »

kccqzy wrote: post #482
lazide wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not a UX issue, that is blatant immigration fraud my man. The reason they are required to readvertise is because the visa they are on is for jobs that cannot be filled by a local , so if the job can actually be filled by a local, that person should lose the visa and have to leave (or find another job that supports them being here). That isn’t a technicality, except the prior admins allowed it to be. Does that…

You do not know enough about immigration and are spewing falsehoods. First, a visa is not permission to stay in the U.S. A foreigner can have an expired visa and a valid status to be in the U.S. (they can take their time at their leisure to apply for one). Conversely they can have an unexpired visa but no permission to be in the U.S. (such as when they have a H-1B visa but is actually unemployed for a long time). Sec…

I likely know far, far more about this process than you.

Including currently having ‘Right to work’ in 3 hemispheres on this planet, 2 from visas from various governments. I’ve hired dozens of people in the US under H1B’s, married someone on a green card, etc.

Companies are, and have been, clearly abusing the law in the US for decades. It’s only ramped up over the years and has gotten quite absurd.

I have many friends on H1Bs, and am quite familiar with what is going on recently too.

Just because prior admins have been ignoring illegal behavior doesn’t mean it is actually legal. It just means the party is over, eh?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#494

Post by hvb2 »

Amezarak wrote: post #454
hvb2 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American. Could be filled by an American, sure. Is the American willing to do the work? Probably not... This is not a uniquely American problem. In tech, I've always felt it was hard to hire Americans because it seems there's such a push for degrees in business/law etcetera as opposed to engineering.

How hard are you looking? I was looking early last year and despite hundreds of applications, got nothing but automated rejection emails, if that. I also know many new grads looking for jobs and having a lot of trouble. Unfortunately, their experience is telling their younger peers not to go into tech - it's full.

I'm not the first filter, there's a recruiter upstream for me. And this wasn't for new grads but senior positions.

What I'm trying to say is that all the 'good' resumes that made it through were almost exclusively for non citizens or naturalized people.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#495

Post by bubblethink »

nyolfen wrote: post #214
kccqzy wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lure of H-1B is not really the money savings. Go look at the graduating class of computer science students at large universities. A large fraction are international students. Universities thrive on them since they pay the most tuition and are generally not allowed any financial aid. Companies want to hire them in addition to U.S. citizens. That's it. No Silicon Valley company that I know of pays H-1B and citizens…

> No Silicon Valley company that I know of pays H-1B and citizens different wages on that basis. larger pool means lower wages. this is so fundamental and obvious that it feels like i'm being gaslit when i see shit like this.

larger pool + larger pie due to the growth of the economy. You are viewing it as a zero sum game. What's better ? Two jobs with a pool of 3 people, or 2 million jobs with a pool of 2.3 million ?

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#496

Post by pandaman »

bubblethink wrote: post #491
pandaman wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The company is free to tailor the minimum requirements to its liking however it must be able to persuade the government that the job cannot be done without these requirements and a foreigner meets them. If you could just require a Nobel Prize in Physics and 50 years of experience for your PM or JS-jockey job then we would not be seeing articles like this. So I don't see why would you be pointing it out. >and companie…

The "busts" are more theater than anything else. The DOJ also sued companies for not hiring enough immigrants ( https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s... ) . >The problem is not "good lawyers" but the fact that the only punishment for breaking the law is a pittance of a settlement. That's how settlements go. The government gets to do its theater, the constituents believe that the government is f…

It doesn't matter how you evaluate these busts, what matters is that they contradict your claim.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#497

Post by hvb2 »

logicchains wrote: post #447
hvb2 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tons of people getting employment based green cards hold jobs that could easily be filled by an American. Could be filled by an American, sure. Is the American willing to do the work? Probably not... This is not a uniquely American problem. In tech, I've always felt it was hard to hire Americans because it seems there's such a push for degrees in business/law etcetera as opposed to engineering.

Americans would be more willing to do the work if they salary was higher, and the salary would be higher if the supply of workers was reduced due to not allowing cheap imported labor.

Americans aren't willing to pay the prices needed for the vast majority of things to be made in America or made by non immigrants. Immigrants will do the hard work in very bad conditions by American standards for very little money.

To me it's hilarious how on the one hand America is outraged about how all manufacturing has left the US, then after venting about that they buy a super cheap phone charger on Alibaba...

Put your money where your mouth is. If the customer had rejected overseas cheaper products then more jobs would've stayed in the US. Those salaries are a lot higher though so the products are more expensive...

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#498

Post by 1024core »

thephyber wrote: post #240
1024core wrote: post #202

A lot of these problems could be solved if H1-B's were given out in order of salary (I think there's such a proposal going around recently). And by that I mean: something like a Dutch auction. Give H1-Bs to the top 85K paying jobs (maybe normalized to SoL in the region, I'm sure the BLS has some idea on how to do it). The lure of H1-Bs is the money savings, and the fact that if you're on an H1-B, you're practically a…

This conflates high education specialists with high earnings. It’s probably not completely uncorrelated, but only giving H1-Bs to the highest paying reqs which need them starves all of the other reqs of any possible candidates. I understand that H1-Bs are currently likely to create an abusive relationship with the visa-ed employee, but just because you have identified a valid diagnosis doesn’t mean your suggested pre…

> starves all of the other reqs of any possible candidates.

Nobody has a _right_ to cheap labor! Not attracting enough talent? Offer more!

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#499

Post by bubblethink »

pandaman wrote: post #496
bubblethink wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "busts" are more theater than anything else. The DOJ also sued companies for not hiring enough immigrants ( https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/justice-department-s... ) . >The problem is not "good lawyers" but the fact that the only punishment for breaking the law is a pittance of a settlement. That's how settlements go. The government gets to do its theater, the constituents believe that the government is f…

It doesn't matter how you evaluate these busts, what matters is that they contradict your claim.

I don't see the contradiction here. The game is as follows: Company has to make a good faith recruitment effort. Not an exhaustive search, not beyond reasonable doubt. Just good faith which follows the preponderance of evidence standard. This is by design. The government doesn't believe that it can win on the merits, and hence they settle. The settlement gives everyone what they want.

Re: Corporations are trying to hide job openings from US citizens

#500

Post by the_real_cher »

bubblethink wrote: post #420
the_real_cher wrote: post #410

Has anyone started to think that tech industry in the USA is going the way of the manufacturing industry? And by that I mean mostly gone/offshored?

That is what everyone is asking for though. As you can see from the complaints in the thread, people are angry about jobs going to immigrants in the US. The alternate is for jobs to go to immigrants abroad, i.e. offshoring. It appears that people are generally happier about the latter.

I mean it's six of one half a dozen of another to an American who lost their job.
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