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We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

thenexus.media

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Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#491

Post by asats »

christina97 wrote: post #487
asats wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The desire to come and immigrate to the US has greatly diminished Do you have any data to back up that claim? E.g. the number of diversity lottery applicants (one of the easiest proxies to judge how many people express their interest in moving to the US) went up from 12 million in 2011 to almost 20 million last year.

This thread is largely about college educated folks who represent a small minority of diversity lottery applicants. As to why the DV lottery has grown, I suspect it has a lot to do with it just having become more visible and known, growing hand in hand with increased access to internet and ability to apply.

Sure, if we are talking about the top end we can check the O-visas, the "extraordinary ability in the sciences, arts, education, business, or athletics" ones, both the applications and the issuance of those went up even more than the DV applications:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O_visa#Number_of_visas_issued_...

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#492

Post by Rover222 »

the_af wrote: post #438
Rover222 wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a pointless statement when you make it that broadly. Are you talking about life in North Korea or in China? And do you think American media really distorts the "other" side more than Chinese or Russian media distorts what life in the west is like?

I think the common US view of life in North Korea and China is probably about 90% distorted, more propaganda than reality. I'm not vouching for any country, I'm just saying the public perception in the US is completely distorted. I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese had a slightly more realistic view of the US.

That's a reasonable take. I feel like China has such extreme ends of the spectrum, from the most modern cities to the most distant rural regions. It's hard to think of China in any sort of unified, whole way.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#493

Post by Workaccount2 »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #422
VerminOctopus1 wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in the free and morally righteous West and I self censor all the time. Every single day. My beliefs would have me ostracized from communities and fired from my job.

What beliefs are so dangerous in the west today? The supposed leader of the free world is a rapist who openly brags about assaulting women. His mugshot is used on giant banners that he approves of.

Self responsibility and chronic social problems.

Intelligence and genetics.

Genders and gender specific spaces.

Gender and social/professional roles.

Those are topics which have "sky is blue" level ideological certainty, and not open for debate.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#494

Post by [deleted] »

Akronymus wrote: post #332
ethersteeds wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

dysphoria is certainly a mental illness, transitioning is merely one possible treatment for it (though, pushed as one of the first rather than as one of the last options, which I personally find concerning.)

[deleted]

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#496

Post by causal »

rlt wrote: post #488

“The only difference between your phone and China's social credit system is that China tells you what they're doing.” Weird take. There’s a massive difference between a centralized government-run system and a decentralized system run by individual companies. Credit scores are closest but limited to financial behaviors

Credit scores are used for a lot more than finances. You could argue everything they're used for is tied to money some way, but since everything is being sold to us as a service that doesn't leave much out.

They are also very much not decentralized.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#497

Post by graemep »

sunaookami wrote: post #417
graemep wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not entirely true. People living authoritarian worry about what they say, they self-censor out of fear, they defer to those in power (even at a local level), they accept a hierarchy of power rather than rights. I do not entirely disagree without, but lack of freedom does intrude into day to day life to some extent.

In Germany you literally get your house raided if you critize a politician online. A journalist got a suspended sentence because he posted a pic of then-interior minister holding a sign that was edited to read "I hate freedom of speech".

Lots of bad things in the west, certainly, but there is a huge difference between a suspended sentence and getting murdered: https://www.reuters.com/article/economy/sri-lanka-failing-to...

Picking on not the worst country in the world, but one I know (and was living in at the time this was at its worst). Things have changed there since, thankfully.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#499

Post by causal »

pimlottc wrote: post #173
gruez wrote: post #29

There was a comment that appeared for a few minutes before getting deleted, that vaguely lined up with what I wanted to say. It didn't reappear, so I'll just repost it: >real life also has social credit. were you an asshole to the bartender last week? that goes to your reputation at that bar. did you volunteer with a local non-profit? that goes to your reputation with that organization. even without an algorithm, peo…

Real world social credit is soft and squishy and local and fades or changes over time. Digital social credit is (potentially) an automatically calculated number with strict and unyielding consequences that follows you around for your entire life.

And a digital social credit system can be manipulated to drive behavioral changes en-masse. It centralizes power. Harder to do that with word-of-mouth.

Re: We already live in social credit, we just don't call it that

#500

Post by alistairSH »

nicbou wrote: post #433
alistairSH wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a small difference... at 19, you truly didn't have a credit history. A middle-aged immigrant from Canada likely has a credit history, but for some reason, it's not portable across arbitrary boundaries. Canada-US is a pretty solid example... We're neighbors, we both have stable economies, modern banking, etc. From a consumer's perspective, there's no good reason a credit history shouldn't carry across that bor…

> for some reason, it's not portable across arbitrary boundaries The reason being that you can't be held accountable across borders. I may have good credit in Canada, but my German landlord can't sue me there if I fall behind on rent.

That's assuming a person's creditworthiness and trustworthiness changes as they cross a border. I tend to doubt that happens.
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