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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#491

Post by presentation »

mikepurvis wrote: post #412
presentation wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s democracy though, everyone gets a vote, even if you’re a doofus.

Right, but it puts rational people who seek to govern in a very uncomfortable position when they're up against an adversary who is happy to seize power at all costs, including weaponizing ignorance, ideology, polarization, conspiracy theories, and a complicit media apparatus, and then engages in blatantly un-democratic tactics like gerrymandering and the filibuster, and all the rest of it. Basically when all or most…

IMO it’s an incentive problem - it takes effort to be knowledgeable but the practical benefits are next to nothing. But being in a group of ignorant people is actually probably pretty fun, not to mention the dopamine hit of outrage.

Ideally being informed would be both easier than it is today (less misleading crap, more trustworthy structure to think about what issues are relevant) while also being more rewarded somehow.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#492

Post by wat10000 »

robertlagrant wrote: post #490
wat10000 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are paid by the importer. It’s possible those costs will be passed along with higher prices, but you can’t really pass costs back .

Of course you can. Competition means exporters can lower their prices to help mitigate the tariffs in order to beat their competitors.

They can do that without tariffs too.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#493

Post by ben_w »

Alupis wrote: post #201
coryrc wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People love to cry foul when the US flexes it's might... then cry foul when the US takes a back seat... literally cry foul no matter what the US does. There's a difference between the US invading Iraq and US aiding a country being invaded.

> US aiding a country being invaded Why can't the Germans send troops into Ukraine? Or the Brits (for all their grandstanding and bluster)? Why must it be the US? If "everyone" thinks Putin isn't going to stop with Ukraine, then it would seem Europe has an existential crisis to deal with - not the US, thousands of miles away...

Why the US and not Germany or UK?

Two reasons:

1. Because whichever country does go in, it gives everyone else in NATO an excuse to do nothing in response to Russia subsequently going to full war with whoever it was that went in. Strategic vs tactical response in local political sphere, short-term tactical benefit of using such an excuse comes at long term strategic cost.

2. Right now, each individual European power is in a state of "Oh no, Russia's probably 3-5 years away from attacking us if Ukraine falls, and it will take us 5-8 years to be ready to defend ourselves". The UK, for example, has a 136k active and 32k reserve personnel in total, while Ukraine forces have suffered ~400k wounded and ~50-100k fatalities.

Both points become "we can only intervene directly as a joint act from multiple nations".

That said, if the USA were to leave NATO, I wouldn't be overly surprised if rest of NATO may issue a joint declaration that Ukraine is now under their combined protection, nor would I be overly surprised by an alternative outcome such as NATO being functionally replaced with Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex%3A...

And also, much of Europe is, in fact, sending aid (and arms) to Ukraine. All the other stuff is about troops on the ground.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#494

Post by AlecSchueler »

dylan604 wrote: post #293
nosignono wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with stupidity. Stop painting people as idiots because they exist in one of the most information hostile environments in human history. This isn't some natural state that's unrecoverable. The people you describe have been given a highly addictive media environment tailor made to engender outrage and drive behavior. It shouldn't be a shock when most people cannot resist it. The first step to chang…

> most information hostile environments in human history Is it though? East Germany comes to mind as well as the rest of the Cold War countries behind the Iron Curtain. China seems to be pretty hostile as well. In the US, it is still much easier to find real information that counters the propaganda than it is in any of those other countries. There's no Great Firewall to bypass. You don't even need to do anything anon…

> one of the most

ONE of the most. That you can highlight a few others where things might have been worse doesn't negate that claim.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#495

Post by mallets »

notepad0x90 wrote: post #455
cherryteastain wrote: post #32

Tariffs kinda make sense when you have a deficit in a widely available item. Big trade deficit with Bangladesh? Sure you can buy cheap textiles from Thailand or Vietnam or something. Unfortunately this approach does not work when you lack a viable domestic alternative and you're up against a monopoly. What will the US do if TSMC does not blink? Not buy TSMC made chips? Obviously that is impossible, so the logical con…

I don't know why analysis like this doesn't go a bit deeper. Yes americans will pay more, but TSMC will also see less demand. Intel has it's own foundry, maybe it can start competing against TSMC, because now TSMC costs a lot more and intel's cost of manufacturing in the US to compete against TSMC can be recouped much better thanks to the new market prices set by the TSMC tariffs? Government's shouldn't put up with m…

It doesn't work if you don't have 1:1 product, which Intel foundry absolutely doesn't. Not in performance, price or just ease of use. No one is going to risk years and billions to get it working on Intel, that's a sure way to lose your edge.

Companies (like Nvidia) will just raise prices and if demand drops they will divert more of it to countries like China and EU. And demand isn't going to drop much anyway for in-demand stuff like Apple chips or AI stuff. Best case scenario, they (not TSMC) temporarily eat the cost or spread it around.

This has nothing to do with Trump, it simply doesn't result in competitive local manufacturing. Increasingly rent-seeking AND subsidized, with no pressure to compete.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#496

Post by DaSHacka »

1over137 wrote: post #245
_hyn3 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would TSMC do if they couldn't sell chips to the USA? It cuts both ways, like most trade negotiations.

Sell to the other 95% of humanity I guess.

But what percentage of total sales do they make up?

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#497

Post by robertlagrant »

Detrytus wrote: post #421
wat10000 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US has been defending Taiwan since before integrated circuits were invented. Supporting an ally and a democracy in a critical location is the only reason that matters. That doesn’t matter much to this administration, but it’s not like they’re going to care about TSMC either.

You are so naive to think that US actually cares about democracy. Do you ever wonder why they invaded Iraq two times, but never really bothered to invade Cuba , which is in their backyard? Because Cuba has nothing of value, no natural resources, no valuable technologies. So the US tolerates communist regime in Cuba, because there's no money in invading it. I will disregard "Bay of Pigs Invasion", since that wasn't re…

"Actually caring about democracy" isn't the same as liberal hegemony, where countries go to war to spread democracy.

The US has a good reason to invade Cuba: it's tightly linked to the US's largest enemy. Which is the same reason it doesn't invade (overtly).

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#498

Post by 1718627440 »

booleandilemma wrote: post #422
20after4 wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What democracy?

People voted for orange man, were you not aware?

People voted for Hitler, people voted for Hamas. Being voted for doesn't preclude being malevolent to the voters.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#499

Post by sillyfluke »

xeromal wrote: post #346
dylan604 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because someone has a different point of view than yours does not make them stupid. I know plenty of people that have different views of mine that are much smarter than I am, and engaging with them leads to interesting conversations. I can still think they are "wrong" at the end of these conversations, but I'd never call them stupid. Hell, the lottery is often described as a tax on poor people. Yet the vast majo…

I appreciate you trying to "remember the human" which is one of the top rules of hackernews and every single comment replying to you isn't bothered that they call a whole swath of people stupid. How can we heal, change, and recover from this without reaching out and understanding their POV.

As Orwell has stated ages ago, there is a group of people who will only accept the truth when it confronts them on the battlefield. The unshakeable belief in previous priors leads many people to only face certain truths when forced to through lived experience.

There is la video circulating of a business owner making fun of the Amazon concept of showing thd amount tariffs add to the final price to the consumer. This guy in this video says that number is going to be 0 on his website because his product and the stuff used to make it is "Made in America". The next video is literally him bitching about how some of the Made in America stuff he needs to make his product increased by a grand in just one month. And he like, "why in the fuck are these Made in America affected? Something's messed up here."

At the end of the day, this is a business owner who was aware that the biggest online retailer in America said tariffs are going to affect the price of products the American consumer buys. If this guy can't be bothered to dig a little deeper to save his business, it's hard to expect other people that are a couple degrees removed from the action to do so as well.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#500

Post by CogitoCogito »

fuzzylightbulb wrote: post #89
phkahler wrote: post #38

On the surface, buying 49 percent of Intel wouldn't infuse the company with any capital. It would just bail out investors.

[flagged]

Why would this post be flagged? It could of course just be automatic due to disingenuous flagging by users, but any administrator could see there is no reason to flag this and then unflag it afterwards.
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