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Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

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Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#491

Post by ian-g »

paradox460 wrote: post #490
0x00000000 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anything within 45 minutes of your office in palo alto (where you are mandated to show up 5 days a week). this will get you a 1300sqft piece of shit built in 1964 with asbestos and lead paint and lead pipes and a cracked foundation (also some dipshit realtor had them paint all the original wood beams and paneling inside gloss white and replace the original wood and slate floors with grey vinyl) from some baby boomer…

I don't think of it this way often, but damn am I glad I left the bay area

I can’t help but miss it, even though I desperately needed to get out too.

I miss knowing where the darkest place is for 50 miles in all directions. I never got to bike highway 1 from SF to Big Sur. My boyfriend and I would have an easier time finding jobs there. There’s better roads for car enthusiasts.

There was a lot of depressing tech saturation in the Bay Area, but there’s still good pockets of the pre-software culture around there if you’re willing to live towards the edges and look for the weirdness.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#492

Post by paradox460 »

ian-g wrote: post #491
paradox460 wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think of it this way often, but damn am I glad I left the bay area

I can’t help but miss it, even though I desperately needed to get out too. I miss knowing where the darkest place is for 50 miles in all directions. I never got to bike highway 1 from SF to Big Sur. My boyfriend and I would have an easier time finding jobs there. There’s better roads for car enthusiasts. There was a lot of depressing tech saturation in the Bay Area, but there’s still good pockets of the pre-software…

5 plus years on, all that I really miss consistently is some of the food options there. Everything else you can get elsewhere, for cheaper, and in a lot of cases better. And I know I can't go back to my food options there because half the restaurants I used to like are gone and the other half have changed ownership

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#493

Post by amy214 »

vkou wrote: post #356
Retric wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You pay for health insurance in every single county, either directly or through higher taxes.

In the United States in particular, though, you pay twice - once for the healthcare, a second time for all the bloat and waste that comes with it.

Yea, exactly.

You pay for healthcare in -any- system, even a completely communist/socialist system. Healthcare costs resources which much be allocated to a greater or lesser extent.

Problem with the US system is WHOM do you pay. Ultimately, to a degree perhaps greater than almost any other nation - you're paying quite a lot to stock holders, both public and private, stock holders of insurance, stock holders of pharma companies, stock holders of pharmacy companies, stock holders of EMR software (private company, Epic), and I'm sure, many other for-profit companies. Hospitals tend to be the only technically not for profits in the equation, as well as healthcare groups, but even then these groups tend to operate in a for-profit manner in service of ambitions of regional growth

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#494

Post by coredog64 »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #444
0x00000000 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

anything within 45 minutes of your office in palo alto (where you are mandated to show up 5 days a week). this will get you a 1300sqft piece of shit built in 1964 with asbestos and lead paint and lead pipes and a cracked foundation (also some dipshit realtor had them paint all the original wood beams and paneling inside gloss white and replace the original wood and slate floors with grey vinyl) from some baby boomer…

The median income in the Bay Area is around 120-180k. You aren’t buying a 3m house for that, so how is it all those people somehow survive?

Some anecdotal data points from a guy who lived in the Bay Area when poor people could afford Redwood City and just returned from a family event.

1. The neighborhood I grew up in in San Jose has 3, 4, or even 5 cars in front of every house. My working thesis is that despite being small, these are multi-generational homes, probably with the notional homeowners being the ones that were living there back in the mid-80s.

2. My aunt lives in a much nicer part of San Jose in the house that her husband inherited from his parents. Many of the other neighborhood homeowners are in the same situation, although there has been some flipping going on.

3. Three more boomers at the family event are all living in inherited houses, including one couple that has a pair of houses that they each inherited from their respective parents. They're not renting out the surplus, but instead have turned both into animal rescue sites.

All of these folks are grandfathered in to extremely low Prop 13 property taxes.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#495

Post by _cs2017_ »

I don't understand the twitter post.

- Did he take the offer or not? - Did he forfeit the vested shares because he took the offer or because he didn't? - What was he offered in return for forfeiting the vested shares? - Did he get a payout of 1% because he took the offer or because he didn't? - The 1% comment implies that Google didn't use the $2.4B to buy the shares of Windsurf; if not shares, then what did Google get in return?

Original citation: "I was given an offer that would explode same day. I had to forfeit all of my vested shares earned over my 3.5+ years at Windsurf. I was ultimately given a payout of only 1% of what my shares would have been worth at the time of the deal."

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#496

Post by myrandomcomment »

stan_kirdey wrote: post #75

Engineers: always negotiate for higher base salaries. In the vast majority of cases—especially during acquihires—your equity will be worth little or nothing. Founders and VCs still get paid; employees rarely do. Don't just accept promises. Ask for the 409A valuation, liquidation preferences, and pay bands. If a company won’t provide transparency, that’s your signal. Equity is a lottery ticket. Salary is money in the…

I would like to understand a bit here about what you are saying as having been involved in a few startups and I do not quite understand what you are getting at. My understanding based on experience (successful exits, small exits and crash and burns) follow.

First a 409A is generally engineered to keep the lowest value possible in order to allow the employees to exercise their options at the lowest value via an 83b election so at an exit they can be taxed at the long term capital gains rate. When someone joins a startup and is issued options the value of the stock is set via the 409A (which has to be renewed every year). The lower the number the more likely an employee can afford to write the check. 100K shares at $0.01 vs at $0.25 is a major factor for anyone to consider. Any startup worth their damn will make sure the facts in any 409A fit a low number for that reason. The reality of an exit where you are acquired will be based on other numbers that optimize for forward earns and value of your team and tech.

The questions you need to ask are:

What is the total authorized shares? What is the required process to raise that number? How are we funded? Does funding include preferred shares? What is the preference on those shares? On an exit what is the payment order?

I agree about the salary bands and at my current company we provide them, as well as answering all the questions above upfront to any candidate with an offer.

The reality of windsurf is that the founders are scum and this is going to end up in court for years. Google should be ashamed.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#497

Post by all2 »

kortilla wrote: post #485
all2 wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do a minimum of 2 hours a day. I think people in this particular conversation might be just a little divorced from reality.

So? My point is that’s a miserable life to put up with when you can afford a $3 million dollar home. 8% of your waking life going to and from work without getting paid for it is dumb

I honestly don't have a lot of options. I've got bills to pay.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#498

Post by AYBABTME »

Nemo_bis wrote: post #366
AYBABTME wrote: post #351

So if one was to start a company today and wanted to enshrine employee-and-founder-friendly terms in their company, how should things be structured? Make the founders' shares be of the same class as the employees? Something special?

Make it a cooperative. https://tech-coops.xyz/

Kind of a non-starter. No one is going to found and invest in a cooperative.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#499

Post by Thorrez »

caminante wrote: post #417
Thorrez wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a $2M 4-3 2279sqft very-nice-looking home in Santa Barbara: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/5436-Agana-Dr-Santa-Barba...

You're making his point. 4br in only 2k sqft? For 2M? Please...

I'm not saying the prices are reasonable.

I'm saying $2.2M for a "shithole 1300sqft" doesn't make sense when you can pay $2M for a nice 2279sqft.

Re: Windsurf employee #2: I was given a payout of only 1% what my shares where worth

#500

Post by baq »

usaar333 wrote: post #453
baq wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may work for you, but in general isn’t good advice. You shouldn’t be confusing beliefs and risks. Risk should be managed - you should be comparing cash invested into the public market (or treasuries, or bitcoin, whichever you prefer) with equity in the startup, not with a savings account.

Startup equity is worth a lot: https://www.amafinance.org/startup_comp/

Maybe useful for VCs who have a portfolio of companies and need to put stuff in their presentations to LPs.

If you’re an employee you can’t look at this like an investor would. Your risk profile is completely different. The write up is correct in that it’s basically a call option, correctly point out there is no market for it and then ignore the fact that zero liquidity means you can land a 747 between the bid and ask (if you get anyone to buy from you at all).

This a feel good number generator.

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