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OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

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Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#491
From Noam Brown

https://x.com/polynoamial/status/1946478258968531288

"When you work at a frontier lab, you usually know where frontier capabilities are months before anyone else. But this result is brand new, using recently developed techniques. It was a surprise even to many researchers at OpenAI. Today, everyone gets to see where the frontier is."

and

"This was a small team effort led by @alexwei_ . He took a research idea few believed in and used it to achieve a result fewer thought possible. This also wouldn’t be possible without years of research+engineering from many at @OpenAI and the wider AI community."

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#492
post #9

Some previous predictions: In 2021 Paul Christiano wrote he would update from 30% to "50% chance of hard takeoff" if we saw an IMO gold by 2025. He thought there was an 8% chance of this happening. Eliezer Yudkowsky said "at least 16%". Source: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/sWLLdG6DWJEy3CH7n/imo-challe...

Those percentages are completely meaningless. No better than astrology.

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#493
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope https://x.com/polynoamial/status/1946478249187377206?s=46&t=...

If you don't have a Twitter account then x.com links are useless, use a mirror: https://xcancel.com/polynoamial/status/1946478249187377206 Anyway, that doesn't refute my point, it's just PR from a weaselly and dishonest company. I didn't say it was "IMO-specific" but the output strongly suggests specialized tooling and training, and they said this was an experimental LLM that wouldn't be released. I strongly suspect…

You don't need specialized tooling like Lean if you have enough training data with statements written in the natural language, I suppose. But the use of AlphaProof/AlphaGeometry type of learning is almost certain. And I'm sure they have spent a lot of compute to produce solutions, $10k is not a problem for them.

The bigger question is - why should everyone be excited by this? If they don't plan to share anything related to this AI model back to humanity.

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#494
post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The correctness of 8%, 16%, and 90% are all equally unknown since we only have one timeline, no?

This is probably the best thing I’ve ever read about predictions of the future. If we could run 80 parallel universes then sure it would make sense. But we only have the one [1]. If you’re right and we get fast takeoff it won’t matter because we’re all dead. In any case the number is meaningless, there is only ONE future.

You can make predictions of many different things though. Building a quantifiable track record. If one person is consistently confidently wrong then that says something about their ability and methodology

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Would you also get triggered if you saw people make a bet at, say, $24 : $87 odds? Would you shout: "No! That's too precise, you should bet $20 : $90!"? For that matter, should all prices in the stock market be multiples of $1, (since, after all, fluctuations of greater than $1 are very common)? No. I responded to the same point here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44618142 > correct thing to do is to just al…

I mean, sure people can use this to fool themselves. I think usually the cause of someone fooling themselves is "the will to be fooled" , and not so much that fact that they used precise numbers in the their internal monologue as opposed to verbal buckets like "pretty likely", "very unlikely". But if you estimate 56% it sometimes actually makes a difference, then who am I to argue? Sounds super accurate to me. :) In…

> and not so much that fact that they used precise numbers in the their internal monologue as opposed to verbal buckets like "pretty likely", "very unlikely"

I am obviously only talking from my personal anecdotal experience, but having been on a bunch of coffee chat in the last few months with people in the AI safety field in SF, and a lot of them being Lesswrong-ers, I experienced a lot of those discussions with random % being thrown in succession to estimate the final probability of some event, and even though I have worked in ML for 10+ years (so I would guess more constantly aware of what a bayesian probability is than the average person), I do find myself often swayed by whatever numbers comes out at the end and having to consciously take a step back and pull myself from instinctively trusting this random number more than I should. I would not need to pull myself back, I think, if we were using words instead of precise numbers.

It could be just a personal mental weakness with numbers with me that is not general, but looking at my interlocutors emotional reactions to their own numerical predictions I do feel quite strongly that this is a general human trait.

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#496
There is some relevant context from Terence Tao on Mathstodon:

> It is tempting to view the capability of current AI technology as a singular quantity: either a given task X is within the ability of current tools, or it is not. However, there is in fact a very wide spread in capability (several orders of magnitude) depending on what resources and assistance gives the tool, and how one reports their results.

> One can illustrate this with a human metaphor. I will use the recently concluded International Mathematical Olympiad (IMO) as an example. Here, the format is that each country fields a team of six human contestants (high school students), led by a team leader (often a professional mathematician). Over the course of two days, each contestant is given four and a half hours on each day to solve three difficult mathematical problems, given only pen and paper. No communication between contestants (or with the team leader) during this period is permitted, although the contestants can ask the invigilators for clarification on the wording of the problems. The team leader advocates for the students in front of the IMO jury during the grading process, but is not involved in the IMO examination directly.

> The IMO is widely regarded as a highly selective measure of mathematical achievement for a high school student to be able to score well enough to receive a medal, particularly a gold medal or a perfect score; this year the threshold for the gold was 35/42, which corresponds to answering five of the six questions perfectly. Even answering one question perfectly merits an "honorable mention".

> But consider what happens to the difficulty level of the Olympiad if we alter the format in various ways:

> * One gives the students several days to complete each question, rather than four and half hours for three questions. (To stretch the metaphor somewhat, consider a sci-fi scenario in the student is still only given four and a half hours, but the team leader places the students in some sort of expensive and energy-intensive time acceleration machine in which months or even years of time pass for the students during this period.)

> * Before the exam starts, the team leader rewrites the questions in a format that the students find easier to work with.

> * The team leader gives the students unlimited access to calculators, computer algebra packages, textbooks, or the ability to search the internet.

> * The team leader has the six student team work on the same problem simultaneously, communicating with each other on their partial progress and reported dead ends.

> * The team leader gives the students prompts in the direction of favorable approaches, and intervenes if one of the students is spending too much time on a direction that they know to be unlikely to succeed.

> * Each of the six students on the team submit solutions, but the team leader selects only the "best" solution to submit to the competition, discarding the rest.

> * If none of the students on the team obtains a satisfactory solution, the team leader does not submit any solution at all, and silently withdraws from the competition without their participation ever being noted.

> In each of these formats, the submitted solutions are still technically generated by the high school contestants, rather than the team leader. However, the reported success rate of the students on the competition can be dramatically affected by such changes of format; a student or team of students who might not even reach bronze medal performance if taking the competition under standard test conditions might instead reach gold medal performance under some of the modified formats indicated above.

> So, in the absence of a controlled test methodology that was not self-selected by the competing teams, one should be wary of making apples-to-apples comparisons between the performance of various AI models on competitions such as the IMO, or between such models and the human contestants.

Source:

https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/114881418225852441

https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/114881419368778558

https://mathstodon.xyz/@tao/114881420636881657

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you sure this is not specialized to IMO? I do see the twitter thread saying it's "general reasoning" but I'd imagine they RL'd on olympiad math questions? If not I really hope someone from OpenAI says that bc it would be pretty astounding.

They also said this is not part of GPT-5, and “will be released later”. It’s very, very likely a model specifically fine-tuned for this benchmark, where afterwards they’ll evaluate what actual real-world problems it’s good at (eg like “use o4-mini-high for coding”).

Humans who excel at IMO questions are also "fine tuned" on them in the sense that they practice them for hundreds of hours

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a big leap from "answering test questions" to "contributing to scientific discovery".

Having spent tens of thousands of hours contributing to scientific discovery by reading dense papers for a single piece of information, reverse engineering code written by biologists, and tweaking graphics to meet journal requirements… I can say with certainty it’s already contributing by allowing scientists to spend time on science versus spending an afternoon figuring out which undocumented argument in a R package…

That is not what they mean by contributing to scientific discovery.

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think this “cheating” is fine. In fact it’s preferable. I don’t need an AI that can act as a really expensive calculator or solver. We’ve already built really good calculators and solvers that are near optimal. What has been missing is the abductive ability to successfully use those tools in an unconstrained space with agency. I find really no value in avoiding the optimal or near optimal techniques we’ve…

> I actually think this “cheating” is fine. In fact it’s preferable. The thing with IMO, is the solutions are already known by someone . So suppose the model got the solutions beforehand, and fed them into the training model. Would that be an acceptable level of "cheating" in your view?

Surely you jest. The cheating would be the same cheating as any other situation - someone inside the IMO skipping the questions and answers to people outside then that being used to compete. Fine - but why? If this were discovered then it would be disastrous for everyone involved, and for what? A noteworthy HN link? The downside would be international scandal and careers destroyed. The upside is imperceptible.

Finally, even if you aligned the model with the answers its weight shift of such an enormous model would be inconsequential. You would need to prime the context or boost the weights. All this seems like absurd lengths to go to to cheat on this one thing rather than focusing your energies on actually improving model performance. The payout for OpenAI isn’t a gold medal in the IMO it’s having a model that can get a gold medal at IMO then selling it. But it has to actually be capable of doing what’s on the tin otherwise their customers will easily and rapidly discover this.

Sorry, I like tin foil as much as anyone else, but this doesn’t seem credibly likely given the incentive structure.

Re: OpenAI claims gold-medal performance at IMO 2025

#500
post #490

Pre-registering a prediction: When (not if) AI does make a major scientific discovery, we'll hear "well it's not really thinking, it just processed all human knowledge and found patterns we missed - that's basically cheating!"

Less that AI is cheating and more that we basically found a way to take the thousand monkeys with infinite time scenario and condense that into a reasonable(?) amount of time and with some decent starting instructions. The AI wouldn't have done any of the heavy lifting of the discovery, it just iterated on the work of past researchers at speeds beyond human.
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