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OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

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Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#491

Post by dboreham »

shados wrote: post #103
extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

CC would explode even further if they had official Team/Enterprise plan (likely in the work, Claude Code Waffle flag), and worked on Windows without WSL (supposedly pretty easy to fix, they just didn't bother). Cursor learnt the % of Windows user was really high when they started looking, even before they really supported it. They're likely artificially holding it back either because its a loss leader they want to us…

Conversely Cursor is still broken on WSL2.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#492

Post by TrackerFF »

herval wrote: post #235
woeirua wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no moat. If you’re a true believer that strong agents are around the corner, then all of these add on companies will be obsolete in a few years. The first company to strong agents can trivially rebuild Cursor or Windsurf.

If you believe AGI is around the corner, doesn’t it mean it’ll replace ALL products?

If AGI is around the corner, I don't believe one single company will "own" that tech. It will be like it is today, where you have multiple models competing.

And after that, AGI will be open source.

In the end, ownership of data and compute will be the things that define the victors.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#493

Post by satvikpendem »

N3cr0ph4g1st wrote: post #408
satvikpendem wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does Cursor/Windsurf offer over VS Code + CC? Cursor's @Docs is still unparalleled and no MCP server for documentation fetching even comes close. That is the only reason why I still use Cursor, sometimes I have esoteric packages that must be used in my code and other IDEs will simply hallucinate due to not having such a robust docs feature, if any, which is useless to me, and I believe Claude Code also falls i…

Context7 mcp

Tried it, doesn't work that great

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#494

Post by notpushkin »

whatevaa wrote: post #346
edoceo wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cost of the fork isn't creating it, it's maintaining it. But maybe AI could help :/

The cost of vscode fork is that microsoft has restricted extension marketplace for forks. You have to maintain separate one, that is the real dealbreaker

https://open-vsx.org/

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#495

Post by a5seo »

blitzar wrote: post #386
jonas21 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The investors made money too. The valuation at the last round was $1B, and Google paid them out at a valuation of $2.5B as part of the agreement [1]. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2024/8/2/24212348/google-hires-char...

2.5x in 10 months. With returns like that - if I were the full time chef of the investors spare private jet I would be updating my CV and looking for a new gig.

That’s a deep burn.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#496

Post by i_love_retros »

submeta wrote: post #426
imiric wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious to see what you've built with all that extra productivity.

I work at a company with over 700 employees. And there are tons of use cases where a simple CRUD app is sufficient. Or where glue code needs to be written / changed for legacy systems. Or where an OS system like Camunda is deployed and needs to be configured, workflows developed, etc The reality of companies out there is much simpler than the challenges of a startup that needs to build systems that are state of the a…

Who's reviewing all the code you are churning out with ai? If everyone is used to maintaining not developing software it doesn't sound like they'd be best suited to have to review lots of complex pull requests.

It sounds like you are moving very fast and probably have people just clicking "approve".

Good luck for the future to who ever owns your company!

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#497

Post by mark_l_watson »

AJ007 wrote: post #238
e1g wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, my CC usage is regularly $50-$100 per day , so their Max plan is absolutely great value that I don’t expect to last.

Pretty easy to hit $100 an hour using Opus on API credits. The model providers are heavily subsidized, the datacenters appear to be too. If you look at the Coreweave stuff and the private datacenters it starts looking like the telecom bubble. Even Meta is looking to finance datacenter expansion - https://www.reuters.com/business/meta-seeks-29-billion-priva... The reason they are talking about building new nuclear pow…

Your excellent comments make me grateful that I am retired and just work part time on my own research and learning. I believe you when you say professional developers will need large inference compute budgets.

Probably because I am an old man, but I don’t personally vibe with full time AI assistant use, rather I will use the best models available for brief periods on specific problems.

Ironically, when I do use the best models available to me it is almost always to work on making weaker and smaller models running on Ollama more effective for my interests.

BTW, I have used neural network tech in production since 1985, and I am thrilled by the rate of progress, but worry about such externalities as energy use, environmental factors, and hurting the job market for many young people.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#498

Post by manojlds »

extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

Since then OpenAI has released Codex as well (the web one)

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#499

Post by manojlds »

adamoshadjivas wrote: post #76
extr wrote: post #56

IMO other than the Microsoft IP issue, I think the biggest thing that has shifted since this acquisition was first in the works is Claude Code has absolutely exploded. Forking an IDE and all the expense that comes with that feels like a waste of effort, considering the number of free/open source CLI agentic tools that are out there. Let's review the current state of things: - Terminal CLI agents are several orders of…

Agreed on everything. Just to add, not only anthropic is offering CC at like a 500% loss, they restricted sonnet/opus 4 access to windsurf, and jacked up their enterprise deal to Cursor. The increase in price was so big that it forced cursor to make that disastrous downgrade to their plans. I think only way Cursor and other UX wrappers still win is if on device models or at least open source models catch up in the ne…

If open models become big, open coding agents would be bigger at that point. Even more motivation as well.

Re: OpenAI’s Windsurf deal is off, and Windsurf’s CEO is going to Google

#500

Post by manojlds »

csomar wrote: post #321
teruakohatu wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CC at like a 500% loss Do you have a citation for this? It might be at a loss, but I don’t think it is that extravagant.

The way I am doing the math with my Max subscription and assuming DeepSeek API prices, it is still x5 times cheaper. So either DeepSeek is losing money (unlikely) or Anthropic is losing lots of money (more likely). Grok kinda confirms my suspicions. Assuming DeepSeek prices, I've probably spent north of $100 of Grok compute. I didn't pay Grok or Twitter a single cent. $100 is a lot of loss for a single user.

Comparison should be with Claude API pricing. It doesn't matter what other models cost.
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