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Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

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Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#491

Post by typewithrhythm »

anigbrowl wrote: post #401
typewithrhythm wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely absurd. Why is it people feel the need to make out that western cities are somehow magically immune from the exact same detrimental effects that they happily accept about everywhere else? "Enrichment" is a buzzword for the insulated elite happy that they have new things on their lunch menu, somehow ignoring all the negatives that come with it.

I can't help observing that Britain established a global empire (so vast in scope that they could truthfully say the sun never set upon it, until quite recently) and made it clear to the countries they colonized that Britain, and particularly England, was the center of civilization. We're surrounded by the artefacts of this empire, from Imperial measurements in the USA to Greenwich Mean time being the default timezon…

Migration is a policy issue, not some natural force like osmosis. It's entirely irrelevant why migrants want to come, when you have an existing population that is being harmed by migration policy.

It's simply that the wealthy benifit from increasing labour supply; this is the "enrichment" you get. Not an improvement in culture or conditions, an increase in wealth concentration.

It's entirely reasonable for a citizen in an English speaking nation to complain about other languages becoming common, as it is direct evidence of the migration policy that is doing them harm.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#492

Post by ddejohn »

Klonoar wrote: post #449
ddejohn wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I tried to get some friends who visited recently to avoid it in favor of some other culturally significant spots Any tips for somebody looking to visit Japan in the next year or so?

Old-fashioned-guidebooks, like the other commenter said, can be useful... but IMO it's a gamble. One option if you're looking to avoid Kyoto, but want something that still feels sufficiently old world, is Kanazawa. You can take the Shinkansen from Tokyo to get there; ever since this line was opened it also has its fair share of tourists, but it's way less popular than Kyoto and IMO very nice. Old Samurai town out on…

Excellent, arigato gozaimasu!

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#493

Post by yupitsme123 »

the_af wrote: post #483
timr wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You balked at the idea of volunteerism, but then I gave you less...demanding...versions, and you criticize them as being imperfect. It's clear that I'm not going to convince you, and you keep cherry-picking the most expensive / burdensome examples I provide, so I'm done replying after this. But since I didn't explain it explicitly , the principle is that while all travel is damaging , you can thoughtfully pick activi…

That's rich. You haven't proven any of your alternatives is any better. Like, none of them. They are all as artificial as sightseeing, but if it makes you sleep better at night... Your "yoga retreat" is the worst of the Eat Pray Love kind of tourism, I cannot believe what I'm reading. It's artificial as fuck, please don't suggest it ever again. I also do not want to visit friends and family, that's a different activi…

I think you kind of missed his point. The current era of tourism does to foreign cities what gentrification did to working class neighborhoods.

At first, people want a taste of something different and authentic. But eventually the place sells out and stops being a real place and starts catering to the new entrants, pushing out the natives in the process.

Florence is a good example of this. Not long ago it was a real place where real people lived. Nowadays everyone there is a foreigner, including the workers and the people who own the businesses and Airbnbs. A tourist goes there and feels like they've gotten to know Italy, but really all they experienced was a theme park designed to take their money by catering to their expectations of what Italy is supposed to be like.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#494

Post by the_af »

yupitsme123 wrote: post #493
the_af wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's rich. You haven't proven any of your alternatives is any better. Like, none of them. They are all as artificial as sightseeing, but if it makes you sleep better at night... Your "yoga retreat" is the worst of the Eat Pray Love kind of tourism, I cannot believe what I'm reading. It's artificial as fuck, please don't suggest it ever again. I also do not want to visit friends and family, that's a different activi…

I think you kind of missed his point. The current era of tourism does to foreign cities what gentrification did to working class neighborhoods. At first, people want a taste of something different and authentic. But eventually the place sells out and stops being a real place and starts catering to the new entrants, pushing out the natives in the process. Florence is a good example of this. Not long ago it was a real…

Ok, I can get that. I've been to Florence and it does feel artificial to me. And it's indeed overcrowded with peddlers selling crap. But it's not the only city in Italy, and I don't particularly like it. Italy as a whole is an amazing country and a wonderful place to do tourism and sightseeing.

What I could do without is the sanctimonious attitude of "tourism is bad unless you do it exactly like I tell you to, which also happens to be a way that 90% of the middle class that can afford traveling cannot do, but hey, I can, and I've lived near many tourist hotspots anyway [sic], so I guess it sucks to be you!".

The backpacker that can go do volunteer work or rock climbing or living among the locals for 6 months is a tiny minority of those that can travel; saying it's the only valid way of traveling abroad is gatekeeping, plain and simple.

You can be a tourist and simply not be obnoxious, but apparently that's not enough for some people.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#495

Post by lovich »

Findecanor wrote: post #311
lovich wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, that’s just discrimination. It’s bad when anyone does it

It shouldn't be taken personally. It just means that they don't speak English, don't have an English menu, and are not staffed enough to be able to devote the time for understanding you.

When I, personally, am discriminated against, don’t be surprised if I take it personally.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#496

Post by yupitsme123 »

the_af wrote: post #494
yupitsme123 wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you kind of missed his point. The current era of tourism does to foreign cities what gentrification did to working class neighborhoods. At first, people want a taste of something different and authentic. But eventually the place sells out and stops being a real place and starts catering to the new entrants, pushing out the natives in the process. Florence is a good example of this. Not long ago it was a real…

Ok, I can get that. I've been to Florence and it does feel artificial to me. And it's indeed overcrowded with peddlers selling crap. But it's not the only city in Italy, and I don't particularly like it. Italy as a whole is an amazing country and a wonderful place to do tourism and sightseeing. What I could do without is the sanctimonious attitude of "tourism is bad unless you do it exactly like I tell you to, which…

The moralizing aspect comes in when we admit that we all made Florence (and Rome and Venice) the way they are, and that this is the inevitable end of any tourist destination.

Therefore an alternative is needed, that lets us visit a place without destroying it and stealing it from the locals. I think that's what was being proposed.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#497

Post by notpushkin »

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #59
WangComputers wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"they’re serious about “no entry” if you have tattoos" That's nothing unusual in Japan, even Japanese people in Japan can't join a gym or get car insurance if they've got tattoos. They're serious about that stuff for a reason.

I suspect a blind eye would be turned if it’s pretty obviously not a yakuza tattoo right?

I think it’s very taboo regardless of the tattoo design. That said, there are also tattoo-friendly places, and ones where you can just put a bandaid over.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#498

Post by kazinator »

VWWHFSfQ wrote: post #70
bryanlarsen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And a few more of the seedier bars just have a “no foreigners” sign out front. Those have existed long before tourism to Japan became common. Those signs were there when the vast majority of foreigners in Japan were English teachers and soldiers. Many tabehodai (all-you-can-eat) and most nomihodai (all-you-can-drink) places had them.

> no foreigners It's such a contrast to USA, where I doubt that such a thing would even be legal. And also the bit about no tattoos. That's lawsuit city.

> lawsuit city.

A.k.a. New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Miami ... take your pick.

Litigation, the great all-American pastime.

Re: Overtourism in Japan, and how it hurts small businesses

#499

Post by sosborn »

ChromaticPanic wrote: post #486
anigbrowl wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no prohibition against requiring customers to be able to speak Japanese, and this works very well as a tourist filter.

The signs say No Foreigners not No non Japanese speakers . A subtle but important difference.

Every time I've come across one of these signs and wanted to patronize the establishment, a friendly chat with the manager in Japanese was always enough to get them to let me in.

YMMV.

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