Live data from Hacker News

FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

axios.com

491–500 of 690 posts

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#491
post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Average American household budgets are dominated by housing, transportation and taxes. Maybe some of that problem is about spending too much money, but it cannot be denied that housing are unaffordable and that transportation is inefficient and is a mess.

Taxes? That can't possibly be right. Average American household pays a small fraction of their income in taxes. Unless they somehow got a huge, expensive house and have the mortgage paid off, I don't see how their income could possibly be dominated by taxes over, say, healthcare, or food.

A family that makes 80k spends about

- 9400 on federal income taxes

- 12,000 on payroll taxes (including corp chunk b/c of economics)

- 3000-9000 on sales/property/stage income taxes

That's a pretty big chunk.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#492
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People routinely leave their community for their job all the time here. Sure, where the compensation is sufficient to cover your travel costs you would reasonably consider it. But then transportation costs aren't an issue, making the unaffordability idea that started this moot. But, if we want to move beyond the topic of cost, that just brings us right back to the point that travel time ends up being the same livin…

> What compels one to be tripping over their neighbour, but at the same time not wanting to engage in a community with them? Children, among other things. Let's make this concrete. I live ~40 minutes from Washington DC and ~30 minutes from Baltimore. I have three children. I'd need, at minimum, a four-bedroom, two-bathroom property in the city. It will need to be zoned for a good school for obvious reasons. The 30y m…

> I'd need, at minimum, a four-bedroom, two-bathroom property in the city.

Check out a settler home sometime. They were tiny, one room houses that housed themselves and their eight+ children just fine. You don't need this in any way, shape, or form. I do understand why you find it desirable, though.

> It will need to be zoned for a good school for obvious reasons.

I don't live in crazy orange man land. What are the (unfortunately, not so) obvious reasons? It befuddles me that different school zones would be different in any way beyond their geographic positioning, which isn't usually a concern when it comes to schooling. I've never heard of such a thing before.

> Can you find a condominium in either city for this price or less?

What's wrong with where you already are? If you found the lack of jobs, restaurants, entertainment, healthcare, etc. in walking to be a problem, you'd have changed it already. Like we established, the only reason those things aren't found where you are is because you and your neighbours have decided you don't want it.

I just don't understand your logic as to why you don't want it, but also don't want to live in the country. What's the benefit of living where you have all the downsides of the city and all the downsides of the country all wrapped up in one?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#493
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the commute times end up being about the same if you ever have to leave your immediate community People routinely leave their community for their job all the time here. Go take a look at that map I shared earlier. Most of the people in that neighborhood probably don't work in Princeton. They probably don't even work in McKinney or Fairview. Good chance they work in North Plano, Frisco, Addison, Dallas, maybe Garlan…

> People routinely leave their community for their job all the time here. Sure, where the compensation is sufficient to cover your travel costs you would reasonably consider it. But then transportation costs aren't an issue, making the unaffordability idea that started this moot. But, if we want to move beyond the topic of cost, that just brings us right back to the point that travel time ends up being the same livin…

> so what have you gained by living in the city?

Jobs, hopefully paying a good bit more than minimum wage. If not for the city they wouldn't have any kind of income. They don't move to the city because they want some Parisian lifestyle, they move to the city because there are practically no jobs in the actually rural areas.

> They don't want the restaurants, shopping, healthcare, etc. to be anywhere nearby

Correct. They see these things as unsafe for their families to be around. They don't want to live within walking distance of a nightclub.

> Even though they cry that they afford to the transportation to get to them, funnily enough.

Most of the people arguing for better walkability and better transit access are absolutely not the same people actively choosing to live in places like Forney and Princeton and what not. They're generally fine having that commute and are fine driving to the Walmart when they need something that isn't just delivered to their home. Why even bother getting in the car to go to a restaurant, Uber Eats will bring the restaurant to them, and they don't have to deal with the crowds. Which, the few places with actual stores in these areas are massively crowded, because it's just oceans of houses around a few dots of shopping areas with giant parking areas surrounding them.

> What compels one to be tripping over their neighbour, but at the same time not wanting to engage in a community with them?

That they were willing to settle for the hour commute and not a two-hour commute, and that was the biggest single-family home they could afford in that hour commute radius and had a decent school district.

You're looking at it in pretty much the opposite direction from how they're looking at it. You're looking at a community you want to live in and then decide the home you can afford. They're looking for the house they want to live in, and then find the community they can afford to buy in. People didn't choose to live in Princeton or Forney or Melissa or Anna (or dozens of other "cities" around DFW) because of city amenities, outside of maybe a school district. They live there because they could buy a big single house cheap.

When I talk to friends about "if you could just move tomorrow, where would you want to live in DFW", their choices are rarely based in closeness to amenities. It is often about wanting more land, more space, more rooms. A family of four with a four-bedroom house with a dining room and two living rooms, too cramped. Need to move further out and get a bigger house. Definitely down to trade close access to the bike trails, walking distance to a large shopping area, walkable to the transit system to go all over the city, public parks with public swimming pools within walking distance, the elementary school around the corner and the middle school down the street for another few hundred square feet of land.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#494
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the average person is using The "average person" is told from birth to consume as many things and experiences as possible as it if was the only thing that could give their life a meaning. The entire system is based on growth and consumption, I have a hard time blaming "the average person"

> The "average person" is told from birth to consume as many things and experiences as possible as it if was the only thing that could give their life a meaning. The “average person” doesn’t make enough money to pay rent or afford groceries. You’re blaming the poor based on your idea of what an “average person” looks like, which is a representation of middle and upper middle class. The average person doesn’t have the…

The median household income is 80k which is plenty to afford groceries and rent.

How did you come to believe that half the people in the richest country in the world can't afford to eat or have a roof over their head?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "vibes" are that the US government has been cutting funding from education since the 80's. I feel this is very well established, but if you really want a source I can fish up a few charts. As a fun fact, today we still spend about as much per student as we did in the 80's for university. The main difference is that funding cratered, so colleges need to make up for that out of pocket. >people will say shit like "W…

https://www.cato.org/blog/new-k-12-productivity-chart It's hard to believe that education is getting less funding. There seems to be a perception that spending more money on education will result in smarter students or higher test scores but that doesn't seem to be the case. Obviously if you spend $0 on education results will suffer, but there's a point of diminishing returns where $1 more in spending doesn't seem to…

How much we spend on school systems is not a meaningful indicator of how much we spend on education.

American teacher income has barely tracked inflation over the past 30 years, and it sure as shit didn't start high in the 90s. Teachers still have to buy their own supplies, still rely on old material, and still basically can't afford to live.

Gee, why is it so hard to get good teachers into the American school system when someone who is able to go through 4-6 years of college and is smart enough to manage and teach a room full of 30 kids can do pretty much anything else and make way more money? The money isn't going to education.

So where's the money going?

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#496
post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxes? That can't possibly be right. Average American household pays a small fraction of their income in taxes. Unless they somehow got a huge, expensive house and have the mortgage paid off, I don't see how their income could possibly be dominated by taxes over, say, healthcare, or food.

Income tax is not the only tax. First off there is payroll tax. Then there are sales taxes. And don't forget property tax. I am probably forgetting something.

Well if they're buying gasoline in California, or cigarettes in Australia taxes can be a huge part of the pricetag even if they're not thinking of it as taxes. You can see various taxes and fees if you look at the receipt of an airline ticket or a bill from a Telecoms company. I admit the fee they add to fund 911 calls isn't typically large but every little bit adds up

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#497
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People routinely leave their community for their job all the time here. Sure, where the compensation is sufficient to cover your travel costs you would reasonably consider it. But then transportation costs aren't an issue, making the unaffordability idea that started this moot. But, if we want to move beyond the topic of cost, that just brings us right back to the point that travel time ends up being the same livin…

> so what have you gained by living in the city? Jobs, hopefully paying a good bit more than minimum wage. If not for the city they wouldn't have any kind of income. They don't move to the city because they want some Parisian lifestyle, they move to the city because there are practically no jobs in the actually rural areas. > They don't want the restaurants, shopping, healthcare, etc. to be anywhere nearby Correct. T…

> Jobs

You haven't gained that, though. Not without travel, and once travel is in the picture then you can be located anywhere. Like was said in other comments, in practice, the time to get to a point in the city is the same if you start in the city, or if you start outside of the city. Cities build up as hubs for the surrounding area and the world at large, so getting things in and out of the city really fast is core to their design.

> no jobs in the actually rural areas.

1. The data clearly shows that rural areas, as a rule, have more available jobs. But you aren't apt to be able to work your way up to becoming a professional football player or CEO of a Fortune 500 in those jobs, so, granted, the jobs aren't appealing to the temporarily embarrassed superstar. I'll give you that.

2. I don't know where you think this walled city is that prevents anyone who doesn't live in the city from entering, but I can assure you that we're not talking about it. There is nothing that excludes you from city jobs if you live in the country, and likewise there is nothing that excludes you from working in the country if you live in the city.

In fact, those Fortune 500 CEOs and professional football players often live in the country!

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#498
post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I grew up in Brooklyn, NY. I know about both urban and suburban living. I now live in Columbia, MD: a suburb from the late '60s planned with high ideals. My three children each have their own room. They can ride their bicycles on our sleepy street without having to constantly worry about reckless drivers. They can explore the walking trails and wooded areas our community maintains. They can play baseball in one…

The benefits of living in the country are obvious. And since the land provides income itself, the extra cost of transportation one has to assume to live in the country is well offset anyway. Its the weird middle ground that has all of the downsides of the country and all of the downsides of the city all packed into one that we're talking about.

Some people really just want a back yard with a white picket fence their kids can play in

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#499
post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Learning how to stand on your own in school is good practice for doing the same thing in life. By which I’m absolutely not saying “don’t have friends” but rather, you don’t have to be like everyone else. My kids won’t be on social media until they’re not kids anymore. If none of us take a stand, nothing ever changes.

Your kids will create hidden social media accounts that you don't know about. That's what I would have done in their situation.

Indeed, I might have done the same. At least that will be a challenge, lacking smart phones.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of those who carry credit cards in the US, 60% of them carry a balance [0]. There are also all those reports that have come out about how nearly 40% of Americans don't have $400 for an emergency [1], with the median being just $600. If the rule of thumb for an emergency fund is 3-6 months of expenses, and we can agree that paying interest on a credit card is a bad finical decision, then I'm not sure how the "average"…

> Of those who carry credit cards in the US, 60% of them carry a balance [0]. Carrying a balance is not automatically the worst choice. I have a massively positive net worth (for a working stiff), so could effectively have $0 debt at any point in time, inclusive of my mortgage, but all debt is not equal, nor are all investments. Credit card debt is clearly one of the worst forms of debt with the harshest interest rat…

Another option is to do margin borrowing on some investment assets that you have. Because it is a secured loan the interest rates are much cheaper than credit cards. Schwab has a good set up, it can be configured to automatically do a loan if you withdraw more funds from your checking account than you have. They currently charge about 12% but there are other options around 6%.

My friend used this set up for his emergency fund since he felt like it would be better to earn an investment return and take a loan in an emergency instead of sitting around having your money earn minimal amounts in a checking account.

Post reply on HN