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My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

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Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#491

I’m AI neutral but the writing style here is pretty dismissive, and - to match the tone of the article - annoying as fuck. Most completely reasonable objections to LLMs were totally dismissed.

Right? It's gripping reading about the author's insecurities, but fails to say anything useful about AI.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#492
post #467

To quote an excellent article from last week: > The AI has suggested a solution, but the added code is arguably useless or wrong. There is a huge decision space to consider, but the AI tool has picked one set of decisions, without any rationale for this decision. > [...] > Programming is about lots of decisions, large and small. Architecture decisions. Data validation decisions. Button color decisions. > Some decisio…

> Most of what we write is not highly creative, but it is load-bearing, and it's full of choices.

The idea that you can't specify the load bearing pillars of your structure to the AI, or that it couldn't figure them out by specifying the right requirements/constraints, will not age well.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#493
post #487

I think in a lot of cases the skeptics haven't really witnessed how good LLMs can be for a subset of software engineering tasks. I find for mid-complexity code they are far, far better than I am at coding. Even though I often tweak their solutions, they outweigh that by often identifying APIs and even whole libraries to call where I fully would have set about implementing it myself - either out of ignorance or an ass…

The primary skill a developer hones is the ability to know when something is already solved for you. This is where innate laziness is a gift. Why should I write a fetch function if api.fetch exists? This is a natural game time automatic decision, like a baseball player running for first base soon as the ball hits the bat. The natural thing that should be happening to every developer is the natural realization that the LLM is the ultimate api. I have literally sat here going “well why build anything, this damn thing does this and that for free”. For example, why build a todo app? Any of the LLMs can mostly do this. This is not self awareness, but game conditioning and fitness. You should automatically be feeling the sensation just like someone playing a sport for the millionth time.

Developers thinking AI is a fad is like a left fielder thinking about if they should stick their hand out to catch the ball or not. You can’t think about this.

Anyway, I find myself in stasis trying to actually see what to build given the reality of the power of this api. The South Park episode of “The Simpsons did it” is an apt episode. We are very much at the point where the continuous question will be “Well the LLM can do it”.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#494

Seeing everything these days being about vibe coding, I feel a little old with my VIM setup and my LSP servers who I already thought were a nice productivity increase. The problems I have with the stuff relating to MCP is that the tech around it is developing so fast that it's hard for outsiders to catch up with what the best working setup is, for example. What would you do, for example, if you want to selfhost this?…

The self hosted and vim / nvim / emacs integrated llm / agentic / MCP situation is being implemented real time as we speak. There's no good canonical solution right now, especially for self hosting. If you are willing to make API calls to openapi or Microsoft, your options expand dramatically.

I think most people are using off the shelf paid solutions like cursor, windsurf, warp terminal, Claude code.

I'd love to get a set up with a locally hosted full version of deepseek.

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#496

Can someone comment on the cost of running agentic models? Not for a company but for an individual. I tried "vibe coding" a personal project I was struggling with and left even more frustrated because I kept running into token rate limits with Claude (used inside of Zed if it matters). Did I pick the wrong model, the wrong editor, or do I just need to not be so tight with my money?

I haven't used zed specifically, but were you using your own API key for Claude? If so, you were probably running into the Anthropic API rate limits [1]. You can either a) deposit more funds to move your way up the tier list, or instead access Claude via something like OpenRouter, which will give you much higher limits.

[1] https://docs.anthropic.com/en/api/rate-limits

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#497
post #6

One thing that I find truly amazing is just the simple fact that you can now be fuzzy with the input you give a computer, and get something meaningful in return. Like, as someone who grew up learning to code in the 90s it always seemed like science fiction that we'd get to a point where you could give a computer some vague human level instructions and get it more or less do what you want.

For me this moment came when Google calendar first let you enter fuzzy text to get calendar events added, this was around 2011, I think. In any case, for the end user this can be made to happen even when the computer cannot actually handle fuzzy inputs (which is of course, how an LLM works).

The big change with LLMs seems to be that everyone now has an opinion on what programming/AI is and can do. I remember people behaving like that around stocks not that long ago…

Re: My AI skeptic friends are all nuts

#498
Wow, I'm surprised this post hasn't gotten hit by the HN flame-war detector: We have threads downvoted into forced-collapsed that are headed by completely innocuous comments. It really is strange how people here are not able to accept different viewpoints in a discussion: I've three times now returned to the comments to just blanket-upvote everything that's starting to turn grey.
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