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I'd rather read the prompt

claytonwramsey.com

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Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#491

Post by lmm »

EvgeniyZh wrote: post #321
fallinditch wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been obvious since ChatGPT blew up in early 2023 that educators had to rethink how they educate. I agree that this situation that the author outlines is unsatisfactory but it's mostly the fault of the education system (and by extension the post author). With a class writing exercise like the author describes, of course the students are going to use an LLM, they would be stupid not to if their classmates are usin…

> they would be stupid not to if their classmates are using it. Why would they be stupid? Were people before LLMs stupid for not asking smarter classmate/parent/paid contractor to solve the homework for them? Large part of education is learning about things that can be easily automated, because you can't learn hard things without learning easy things. Nothing conceptually changed in this regard, like Wolfram Alpha di…

> Were people before LLMs stupid for not asking smarter classmate/parent/paid contractor to solve the homework for them?

In American universities where your GPA from your in-class assessments forms part of your final grade? Yes, absolutely.

Where I came from you do your learning in class and your assessment in a small, short set of exams (and perhaps one graded essay) at the end of each year. That seems far more conducive to learning things without having to juggle two competing objectives the whole time.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#496

Post by crossroadsguy »

sn9 wrote: post #221

> I should hope that the purpose of a class writing exercise is not to create an artifact of text but force the student to think; a language model produces the former, not the latter. It's been incredibly blackpilling seeing how many intelligent professionals and academics don't understand this, especially in education and academia. They see work as the mere production of output, without ever thinking about how that…

A non-STEM friend got to study/research at really great places across India, Germany, UK, USA, and China for her UG, MA, MPhil, PhD, and postdoc (including lots of field/on ground work). She said that she noted one common theme among her seniors (guides, mentors, colleagues, professors etc) -> that some bad, shit, low quality, whatever published paper is >>>>>>>>>>> high quality work/research but not published or slow to publish (and often for good reason). And she added these were not run of the mill profs who needed those to survive professionally or academically but the likes whose names/reputation often matter more than their departments by many times and don’t need survival at all anymore.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#497

Post by lmm »

scarface_74 wrote: post #408
fallinditch wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that the little sister is acting rationally. Yes it's a bit lazy but then: when was the last time you used a calculator for a calculation that you could have done in your head? Do you actually need to be able to do mental arithmetic, do you actually really need to be able to work out what 24 + 7 is in your head? I don't know what the answer is. I'm old school, if it was up to me I'd bring back slide ru…

Even with a calculator and more so with ChatGPT, you still need to know whether an answer passes the sniff test.

Only in a few fields. You can have a successful career publishing papers in the social sciences, or justifying decisions in middle-management, without being able to know whether an effect size passes the sniff test - actually not knowing will probably help you make convenient mistakes.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#498

Post by junto »

Back in the 90’s I remember similar sorts of kickback from traditional media about the internet and from academia about students not using the library on campuses anymore.

Libraries are still in every campus, often with internet access.

Traditional media have transitioned to become online content media farms. The NYT Crossword puzzle is now online. Millions of people do Wordle every day online.

This is just kickback. Every paradigm shift needs kickback in order to let the dust settle and for society to readjust and find equilibrium again.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#499

Post by cwalv »

bruce511 wrote: post #432
cwalv wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, while 90% will miss the opportunity right there in front of them, 10% will grab it and suck the marrow. Learning is not just a function of aptitude and/or effort. Interest is a huge factor as well, and even for a single person, what they find interesting changes over time. I don't think it's really possible to have a large cohort of people pass thru a liberal arts education, with everyone learning the same…

I did a comp science degree, so I can't speak for the liberal arts. However I imagine the same experience could apply. For us the curriculum was the start of the learning, not the end. We'd get a weekly assignment that could be done in an afternoon. Most of the class did the assignments, and that was enough. There was a small group of us that lived (pretty much) in the lab. We'd take the assignment and run with it, f…

> I did a comp science degree, so I can't speak for the liberal arts.

By 'liberal arts' I meant the common 4 year, non-vocational education. My major was CS too, but well over half of the time was spent on other subjects.

> I get that you cant imagine this playing out. To those interested only in the degree, it's unimaginable

I can easily imagine what you describe playing out. I just wouldn't call it 'sucking the marrow' (unless you were equally avid in all your classes, which time likely would not permit).

But as you allude to in your last point, the system isn't really designed for that. It's nice when it does effectively support the few who have developed the interest, and have extra time to devote to it, as it did for you.

I'd rather see systems that were designed for it though.

Re: I'd rather read the prompt

#500

Post by blt »

ponector wrote: post #199
necovek wrote: post #54

I've already asked a number of colleagues at work producing insane amount of gibberish with LLMs to just pass me the prompt instead: if LLM can produce verbose text with limited input, I just need that concise input too (the rest is simply made up crap).

Chatgpt very useful for adding softness and politeness to my sentences. Would you like more straight forward text which probably will be rude for regular american?

yes
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