Earlier quoted context omitted.
"it is a total moral bankruptcy for a society to have their children starve for their parents dysfunction." Sounds like child services should take those children then? If they can't apply for the lunches, then surely they aren't getting food at home, nor the proper medical care.
Yes, and while waiting for the child services to intervene then those children would still be starving.
I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
491–500 of 918 posts
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#492As someone who experienced this first hand growing up. I consider how someone feels about free school lunch, a basic test of their humanity. If you think kids should go hungry or be embarrassed at school because of their parents finances… we can’t be friends, nor acquaintances. IMHO, you are subhuman at that point and not worth my time. My dad believed that because he paid taxes he shouldn’t have to pay the school to…
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Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
> There are no moral hazards when it comes to social welfare programs. This is a wild statement. Of course people take advantage of welfare programs. Of course welfare programs have unintended consequences and sometimes encourage immoral or anti-social behavior. That doesn't mean they're all bad or that they need to be completely eliminated, but leading with this obvious falsehood made it very hard to read the rest o…
This is exactly why I stake out such a strong position, so that positions like this poke their heads up. Individuals getting benefits when they're ineligible accounts for tiny amounts of the total fraud in these programs. Time after time we discover at least one of two things: - The effort/cost required to reduce fraud usually overshadows the cost of the fraud itself and also dramatically reduces the benefits of the…
https://www.bitsaboutmoney.com/archive/optimal-amount-of-fra...
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is exactly why I stake out such a strong position, so that positions like this poke their heads up. Individuals getting benefits when they're ineligible accounts for tiny amounts of the total fraud in these programs. Time after time we discover at least one of two things: - The effort/cost required to reduce fraud usually overshadows the cost of the fraud itself and also dramatically reduces the benefits of the…
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[0]: https://epicforamerica.org/social-programs/here-is-what-food...
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#495Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interesting. In the Netherlands we packed our lunches or we cycled home to eat lunch with our parents and then cycled back to school. Lunch was one of the most favorite times of my day. A break from school during school hours. What a treat!
Meanwhile, in Texas (~2005), we weren't even allowed to leave the building to eat on the patio outside in high school. Something I thought a lot about when I moved to Mexico and saw kids leaving school at lunch to wander out and eat lunch together in the surrounding part of the city. Too much dangerous liability to allow going outside during lunch hours in a wealthy part of Texas, but not in Guadalajara, Mexico and n…
> Too much dangerous liability to allow going outside during lunch hours in a wealthy part of Texas, but not in Guadalajara, Mexico and nor of the world. Sigh.
Do you think it actually was or is the US just really strict about this?
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
> And then, why stop at lunches? Why not give all children breakfast and dinner too, and buy them good clothes to wear? Indeed: Why not? Certainly a better investment than yet another round of tax cuts for billionaires.
How about this: we give all people all meals, clothes, housing, heating (all essentials) and spending money so that they can explore their interests, travel, etc?
These are both obviously silly examples. The 'Where do we draw the line?!' answer can in this case be answered with 'On the side that feeds hungry children'.
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
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You can do both, especially given the latter pays dividends. People moan about the US's domination on the world stage because it obviously benefits you, collectively, as a country, substantially. The US gets tremendously wealthy off the power and influence it buys with the way it acts on the world stage (as well as unparalleled safety and security). Which is why it grates and/or is mystifying when you complain about…
Foreigners are always insisting on this to me, but they're never able to come up with concrete examples that are very compelling.
The US was doing absolutely fine prior to WW2, back when we didn't feel Europe was our problem. Our economy was going like gangbusters during that period, in fact.
If Europeans really think it so wonderful to dominate the world stage, they should be very happy for the US to step aside and let Europe take a try. The fact that they aren't happy shows that they're not being honest.
>Which is why it grates and/or is mystifying when you complain about that state of affairs. How you distribute the wealth internally is also mystifying, but for different reasons, and largely unrelated to how you get that wealth in the first place.
It's very simple. I want the dollars spent defending Europe to be spent here at home.
The way I see it, a nation can emphasize one, or maybe two, of the following three: growth, welfare state, military.
Post-WW2 US has historically emphasized "growth" and "military". Emphasizing "military" is silly because we barely face any military threats, and we were doing great prior to WW2 with far less military spending.
Europe has historically chosen "welfare state".
I want the US to switch to emphasizing "growth" and "welfare state", and let the Europeans handle their own continent. The fact that Europe has historically underinvested in growth and military is very much their problem.
Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
Stuff like this seems like such a dividing line to me. Like, in theory when people believe things that are morally wrong, I want to reach out to them with compassion and respect and try to gently persuade them to my side because we're all, in theory, on the same side. But if you don't want kids to be fed, I really am not sure we're actually on the same side any more and I really am not sure what to do with that.
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Re: I decided to pay off a school’s lunch debt
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are no moral hazards when it comes to social welfare programs. People really think there are, but every time we look we find practically no freeloaders. This idea that we have to threaten people with literal starvation to get them to be productive members of society is ironically deeply impoverished. And if we really think that's true, why do we let people accrue wealth at all? Why do we then think that the mos…
>People really think there are, but every time we look we find practically no freeloaders. I don't believe that is true. You didn't provide any support for your claim at all either. Let's just consider a single example: >In the past three decades, the number of Americans who are on disability has skyrocketed. The rise has come even as medical advances have allowed many more people to remain on the job, and new laws h…
You can just look at what Social Security says about this [0]. TL;DR:
- Baby boomers getting old
- Economic conditions (you can see this in the data [1], where there's a suspicious huge leap in claims right around Trump monkeying around w/ the economy)
- Absent/inadequate health care
More directly, this doesn't seem to have anything to do with culture. The average disability application age is ~50 [2]. If this were a cultural issue you'd see that number declining.
> Maybe they just believe that parents should be responsible rather than the state.
What policy are you advocating here? So far all you've talked about is the non-existent freeloader problem.
[0]: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/briefing-papers/bp2019-01.ht...
[1]: https://www.ssa.gov/oact/STATS/dibStat.html
[2]: https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/statcomps/di_asr/2023/sect03...