Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think we are going to agree to disagree on some things, but I understand that I am a professional weirdo when it comes to the WFH/RTO battle. I'm a child-free late-30s guy who has always loved commuting (traffic and all) and working away from home and treats the airport, airplane cabin and hotel room in some other city as a collective happy place. > As far as “tech sales”. I’ve lead my share of complex cloud tech p…
I’m not denying the importance of sales meeting clients face to face or even leading the delivery side with a few face to face meetings during both discovery and turn over. I am one of the psychopaths that loves business travel and meeting clients in person. I’m saying that it is silly to have those roles be in the corporate office of your employer. AWS ProServe has a 3 month training program for their early career h…
IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
491–500 of 504 posts
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#492Earlier quoted context omitted.
> What do you mean by one juror or two? My point is regarding when juries are legally allowed to make an intent determination. It often does not require a specific expression of intent and instead can be inferred from activities that indicate things like reckless behavior and disregard for the potential that they do the unlawful thing. The point is the defense can show loads of documents about how working together in…
>The point is the defense can show loads of documents about how working together increases efficiency, how they are streamlining units and they plaintiff has to prove they were targeted as an ex-DEI hire and even though there is just hunch. I don’t know about other countries but that’s how it works in US. They can and a jury can still think that was not the actual reason someone was fired. >Worker protection here is…
Sounds like you can't provide any response to that. Hopefully you've heard about "at will" before and how that works in US. So far it sounds like you're making stuff up or are talking about some other country or region.
> You're mistaking plausibility with convincingness.
That's exactly what you're confusing. Some juries can be convinced but doesn't mean that it's a winnable strategy. How many people are laid off across the US and how feasible is for them to bring up lawsuits and how many would be won with the current laws?
The only exception to this perhaps are the ADA laws, where one can show that the workplace has not accommodated a worker properly. (The ramp is not there / the elevator doesn't have the buttons at the correct height etc). But here we're talking about DEI initiatives not ADA.
> They can and a jury can still think that was not the actual reason someone was fired.
Here you're again mistaking plausibility with convincingness. Just because it's plausible something could have happened, say a person was "managed out" because they were DEI hire, without some evidence convincing the majority of the jury won't work, based on a hunch. That's just not how it works. We can discuss some fantasy world where all the citizens are righteous activists and fight back against the system or the how it usually works out in the real world.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
Google "diversity quotas" or "hiring targets". If you are explicitly demanding a disproportionate number of minority candidates, you are disadvantaging other candidates.
That's the thing, DEI advocates generally don't advocate for diversity quotas or hiring targets and such practices are not common. For example, when I went through the DEI portion of interviewing training we were explicitly told that we were not allowed to hire people of a certain group in order to try to improve diversity.
You can find reports of hr employees and lawsuits involving major companies and universities to the contrary, where there were quotas and discrimination, implicit or explicit.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
While many regulations exist due to regulatory capture, many also exist for good reasons. Notably, with the possible exception of the complicated taxes, the examples you give all have pretty obvious health and safety reasons why they exist. I agree that we should be careful to avoid overregulation in general and regulatory capture in particular. However, even without that access to capital is likely to be a major bar…
> Notably, with the possible exception of the complicated taxes, the examples you give all have pretty obvious health and safety reasons why they exist. What health and safety reason requires a 3% processing fee for credit card payments? Why is it unsafe for the proprietor to live in a room in the same structure as a restaurant in some areas, but not in other places that have different zoning? The only thing that com…
There are likely ways we can give more latitude, but home kitchens often cannot be cleaned to the same standard as commercial kitchens just due to how they have been built.
Unfortunately in terms of "overreaching" regulations, this is the worst example: food borne illneses are very real killers, and a major risk.
Also regarding a licensed electrician, while the regulatory requirements for one may seem high - I'm not 100% sure if they are or not - electrical fires are one of the major ways structures catch fire and kill people.
Really in terms of overbearing regulations, these two actually protect lives every single day. Remember the "Ghost Ship" fire? Caused by electrical fire. Norovirus on cruise ships? Cause hospitalization and evacuation.
I'm all for minimizing regulations, but many many of them are literally written in blood, and the notion that we can wholesale relax them with no ill consequence is just not true.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#495Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Why is this "certain groups" instead of providing the same access to everyone trying to start a business? Because conservatives won't let us. Literally the most famous slogan associated with leftists is wanting regular people to "own the means of production." Most leftists would be THRILLED by programs to help anyone get access to capital.
The single largest capital requirement for most new small businesses is real estate, and is real estate because mixed use zoning is prohibited in the vast majority of areas in the US, requiring the proprietor to separately pay for somewhere to put the business and somewhere to live. Zoning is a local regulation and there are very many localities completely controlled by Democrats, so why does this continue to be the…
Additionally somewhere like SF isn't a monolith, and despite voting heavily for federal democrats, the local elections aren't so clear cut.
Also we need to consider how and if development is truly good for existing residents. Many of them do not think so. The appropriate response here is to develop a sense of curiosity: why is that? What do people believe, and why?
I would say this: modern development doesn't always make the kinds of mixed used neighborhoods that people truly want and love. The cost of development often results in street level vacant commercial space, and that is not good for neighborhoods. Yes a complete revamp of zoning could change this - but would it? How do you build a compelling future that brings people along?
It just isn't trivial sadly.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#496Earlier quoted context omitted.
>The point is the defense can show loads of documents about how working together increases efficiency, how they are streamlining units and they plaintiff has to prove they were targeted as an ex-DEI hire and even though there is just hunch. I don’t know about other countries but that’s how it works in US. They can and a jury can still think that was not the actual reason someone was fired. >Worker protection here is…
> You're just making things up. Sounds like you can't provide any response to that. Hopefully you've heard about "at will" before and how that works in US. So far it sounds like you're making stuff up or are talking about some other country or region. > You're mistaking plausibility with convincingness. That's exactly what you're confusing. Some juries can be convinced but doesn't mean that it's a winnable strategy.…
A company's right to terminate you is not the same thing as their plausible defense in a wrongful termination lawsuit. That you're bringing up other countries is even more confusing. Nothing I said is related to other countries as I do not live in other countries, I have not been employed in other countries, and I do not practice law in other countries.
>The only exception to this perhaps are the ADA laws, where one can show that the workplace has not accommodated a worker properly. (The ramp is not there / the elevator doesn't have the buttons at the correct height etc). But here we're talking about DEI initiatives not ADA.
I'm not talking about DEI. I never mentioned DEI. Are you confused?
>That's exactly what you're confusing. Some juries can be convinced but doesn't mean that it's a winnable strategy. How many people are laid off across the US and how feasible is for them to bring up lawsuits and how many would be won with the current laws?
What does any of that have to do with my point? I didn't say it was common. I didn't say it was an automatic win whenever anyone is fired. These are all strawman arguments. I was just rebutting the very simple point that was made about direct evidence for a state of mind, which is something that IS true about the US legal system, and certainly exists beyond the concept of employment law.
You have completely twisted this around to being about DEI, and trying to rebut the idea that these lawsuits are constantly won at a loss to these companies. None of that was said by me nor was it even suggested by me.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#497Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a conflation in the idea behind this comment that drives me crazy. This version of equity based on race is using race as a proxy for outcomes in life that are actually based on a wide variety of factors. Equality based on race is treating peoples race as equal. The idea that we care about equity is important , but using race as a proxy means we need to care especially about the proxy and making sure the prox…
Why use various proxies at all? Most of the group differences seem to largely share poverty as a primary root factor, and this impacts plenty of sub-groups within the supposedly advantaged groups as well. So why are we not simply addressing that directly? A refrain I've been seeing a lot lately is that the outcome of a system is its purpose. Perhaps that reasoning should be equally applied to an analysis of the imple…
It leads to weird outcomes too like the deaths of despair in Appalachia being "non news" because it largely covers a group we deem as "privileged".
A big part of the issue is reductionistic / simplistic thinking that wants to reduce the cognitive load of decision making by setting up only a few binary gates instead of having to do complex analysis on a case by case basis. This is normal for human brains to try and do.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Notably, with the possible exception of the complicated taxes, the examples you give all have pretty obvious health and safety reasons why they exist. What health and safety reason requires a 3% processing fee for credit card payments? Why is it unsafe for the proprietor to live in a room in the same structure as a restaurant in some areas, but not in other places that have different zoning? The only thing that com…
A restaurant out of your home presents a public health risk sadly. Foodborne illnesses are rare, because of the regulations placed on commercial food sellers. There are likely ways we can give more latitude, but home kitchens often cannot be cleaned to the same standard as commercial kitchens just due to how they have been built. Unfortunately in terms of "overreaching" regulations, this is the worst example: food bo…
> home kitchens often cannot be cleaned to the same standard as commercial kitchens just due to how they have been built.
This has nothing to do with zoning rules. You're not allowed to operate a restaurant on that piece of land regardless of what kind of kitchen you have. Requiring specific materials or equipment is not the same thing as "doing this is banned here but allowed somewhere you can't afford".
> Also regarding a licensed electrician, while the regulatory requirements for one may seem high - I'm not 100% sure if they are or not - electrical fires are one of the major ways structures catch fire and kill people.
Your assumption is that the rules improve safety when it's quite the opposite. A license should be something you get by passing a licensing exam, and taking the licensing exam should be free. Anyone who knows the material gets the license, immediately, at no cost.
Instead we have apprenticeship requirements whose purpose is to constrain the supply of people who hold the license. That increases the cost of hiring a professional, which causes more work to be done by amateurs even if it's illegal, or to ignore problems because they can't afford to pay someone to fix them. Which is how you get electrical fires.
Don't confuse actual safety rules with regulatory capture protectionism that compromises safety to pad the coffers of the incumbents.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
The single largest capital requirement for most new small businesses is real estate, and is real estate because mixed use zoning is prohibited in the vast majority of areas in the US, requiring the proprietor to separately pay for somewhere to put the business and somewhere to live. Zoning is a local regulation and there are very many localities completely controlled by Democrats, so why does this continue to be the…
The notion that "many localities completely controlled by Democrats" is just not really true. The idea that zoning reform is a no-brainer and easy is also clearly not true: it's been a major teeth pull in SF and California, and many different people are pushing back. Additionally somewhere like SF isn't a monolith, and despite voting heavily for federal democrats, the local elections aren't so clear cut. Also we need…
There are in actual fact many cities where Democrats control every branch of local government.
> The idea that zoning reform is a no-brainer and easy is also clearly not true: it's been a major teeth pull in SF and California, and many different people are pushing back.
That's the point. Democrats, despite having majority control in such areas, don't actually do it.
> Also we need to consider how and if development is truly good for existing residents. Many of them do not think so. The appropriate response here is to develop a sense of curiosity: why is that? What do people believe, and why?
If you're an incumbent property owner then you want the value of your existing property to go up. If you want to move into an area you don't already live or build something there, you want property to be affordable. Since only the first group gets a vote in local elections, there is a perverse incentive to maintain artificial scarcity.
> How do you build a compelling future that brings people along?
It's a structural failure that comes from doing zoning at the local level. Alice owns a house in San Francisco and intends sell it and buy one in LA. Bob owns a house in LA and intends to sell it and buy one in San Francisco. Therefore Alice currently wants housing to be expensive in San Francisco and cheap in LA and Bob wants the opposite. But Alice only gets a vote in San Francisco and Bob only gets a vote in LA, so they each vote for housing to be expensive there and then it ends up expensive everywhere. As soon as Bob buys the house in San Francisco and consequently a vote there, he wants that house to cost more rather than less.
If you prohibit scarcity-inducing zoning practices at the state or federal level then Alice and Bob no longer have a strong preference since the rule now affects them both when they sell and when they buy instead of only one of those, but all of the people who don't already own property can now vote in an election for someone that has jurisdiction.
Re: IBM orders US sales to locate near customers, RTO for cloud staff, DEI purge
#500Earlier quoted context omitted.
That link shows that (presumably in order to meet diversity targets) black applicants with a GPA of 3.2-3.39 had nearly the same acceptance rate as Asian applicants with a 3.6-3.79 GPA. 0.4 points is an entire standard deviation for GPA.
Ok? So what? The goal of this process isn't to find the "best" people to admit, it's select between a group of people who are already qualified. Someone else getting picked instead of you sucks regardless of the reason and there's always going to be an imperfect system doing the picking.
That is exactly the goal of this process. Otherwise why does someone with a 4.0 GPA have any better chance than someone with a 3.2 GPA? If all you cared about was "qualified" then there would be some minimum threshold and candidates above that threshold would be chosen at random.
> there's always going to be an imperfect system doing the picking.
"Perfection is impossible" doesn't mean that every imperfect alternative is equally bad.