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The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

awealthofcommonsense.com

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Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#491
My fellow Americans. This is my take on the situation, my opinion:

Right now, the Oligarchs (yes, we have them) are in the process of dismantling the public sector. During this process they have access to all the know-how and data. (That is a form of public-IP theft in broad daylight, btw.)

Then, when quite predictably the shit hits the fan -- as we all know many of these components of the public estate are critical services -- these same oligarchs will create private companies and "our government" will contract out these very same services to the private sector.

And yes, having thrown both baby and the bathwater into the jobless market, they also are building up the uber rolodex of competent ex-civil servants. Many, naturally, will end up working for the very same oligarchs that fired them.

It is an error in my opinion to utilize a partisan lens when considering what is happening to our nation. Trump, Elon, Thiel, and their youth shock troops are floatsome that are riding a wave that is cresting now, but the wave was set in motion during 90s when barriers erected to prevent concentration of Media and Finance in few hands were taken down by the governer from Cocaine Central. The red-blue circus is just that in my opinion.

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#492
post #194

Surely this must be to some degree influenced by the prevalence of ETFs that give small-scale investors access to diversification, at the cost of no direct ownership for the small-scale investor?

i doubt it. $100 in AAPL and $100 in VTI are counted the same way in the stat.

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to raise taxes on the wealthy so heavily that they begin to sell their assets. This brings asset prices down. Meanwhile, lower taxes on normal people, who will have more money and be able to buy those assets. This reverses the wealth transfer. It doesn’t matter how much tax you raise. It just matters that it is enough to reverse the transfer of wealth back to the working class. How specifically doesn’t matte…

Take your property tax idea, and assume you solve issues like the wealthy "selling" the property to companies who "lease" them right back to their wealthy owners (the wealthy will spend a lot of time and effort avoiding the tax) But say you succeed. The wealthy sell their second homes with only a small impact on house pieces. Now your tax raises nothing (everyone sold) and the wealthy invest in something else. It's a…

>Take your property tax idea, and assume you solve issues like the wealthy "selling" the property to companies who "lease" them right back to their wealthy owners

This loophole only works if you don't tax large company real estate holdings. Which would be dumb.

Of course this scheme would require for real estate taxes to also be applied to companies holding real estate. And why wouldn't they?

>The wealthy sell their second homes with only a small impact on house pieces.

This is not only about second homes. It is also about tens of thousands of rental properties. It is about commercial properties that are useful investment vehicles and thus get preference during rezoning, but which push housing further and further from the city center (except for exclusive luxury apartments). etc. etc. If the top 10% own close to 50% of the real estate, there are a lot of potential taxable assets if you target the super rich.

>Or maybe the housing market collapsed under all these forced sales and the wealth is gone

That doesn't make any sense. For the person living in it, a house does not become less useful if its nominal value drops by 50%. But it makes that house much more accessible to people looking for a new home.

>a load of normal people are in negative equity

How would that work? If I force a billionaire to either pay 8% p.a. tax on his real estate holdings or sell it, how exactly does this impact "normal" people? A "normal" homeowner would maybe have to mark down the theoretical value of his house, but he'd still have the same income with which to pay down his mortgage. And if he is forced to sell for whatever reason, potentially even at a loss, he'd still not suffer tremendously, because he'd pay much less for his next home.

>but you've also trapped a bunch of mortgage holders with expensive unsecured debt.

This can be solved through banking regulations, i.e. by forcing banks to offer repayment moratoriums if the equity of a normal home owner goes down without any fault of their own (i.e. because of market turbulence). At the same time you can force banks to hold more capital in reserve to reduce the chance of this kind of regulation leading to a banking crisis.

>It's not simple and I'm a bit tired of pretending it is.

Of course the solutions are not "simple", but the root problem certainly is (wealth inequality) and there are some clear guiding principles that you can use to develop new approaches.

>it's just that I'd really like to see a specific workable plan rather than hand waving.

Here in Germany, I know of at least three different NGOs that have been pointing to this problem for more than a decade now and have developed detailed policy recommendations, both on a national and E.U. level. I'd be astonished if there aren't similar proposals being offered in the U.S. The "how" is almost never the problem. It's more the commitment to actually go through with this. Usually this lack of commitment is covered up by (falsely) claiming that there is no workable solution.

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was following the events very closely. The most obvious foreign interference I saw was Russian spetznaz being brought in as reinforcements to try and suppress tbe protests for longer.

Yeah obviously, but I never claimed there wasn't interference from both sides since Russia would be stupid not to have interfered, but it's not like CIA, who also would have been stupid not to have interfered, wears high visibility vests with their org's logo while on duty abroad or posts their ops on Wikipedia for everyone to see. If the public knew everything the CIA was doing, they would be not very good at their…

Agree! I’m not saying CIA (or whichever other three letter agency) were not involved in any way. But the way I see this, if I was out in the streets trying to get rid of a pro-Russian stooge making my country an autocratic puppet regime, I would be thankful to whomever is paying for the tea, or helping in any other way.

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#495
post #229

The more interesting statistic is that the 3 richest Americans hold more wealth than the bottom 50% of the US. So, to not inconvenience these 3 individuals, you wont make a significant impact to the bottom 50% of US citizens. https://www.forbes.com/sites/noahkirsch/2017/11/09/the-3-ric...

this is a meaningless metric. if you have a positive net worth, you hold more wealth than the bottom 25% combined. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/whats-your-net-worth-25-of-a...

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Higher top marginal income tax rate (was much higher in the 50s, 60s, 70s). Higher capital gains tax. And then use the income from that to distribute wealth through things like single payer health care, affordable housing etc. So the basic needed expenses don't take up such a large portion of the budget for middle income households. Also: stronger unions.

Higher marginal income taxes discourage investment and productivity and high capital gains causes high distortion/is difficult to implement/also discourage investment. Affordable housing shouldn't be tried to be solved by throwing money at it (subsidizing demand), the real way is to cause the supply to go up by laxer zoning and less restrictions. Inheritance taxes could also be used to 'level' the playing without cau…

how are high capital gains difficult to implement? we have clear 15/20% federal rules on them now. we can just change those numbers to whatever we want, like many states already have (NY, CA)

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#497
post #261
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wrong. Small ruling class will own everything. And the majority will have nothing and no rights to have something. It has been tried before.

You mean like today's capitalism then?

at least in the capitalist model things improve over time for everyone

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#498
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I know the stock market has winners and losers. If you're not rich but invested whatever you could over the course of your life and now the market tanks to where you've lost half (or more) of what you had then someone else is going to win that from you. A massively rich company can hold out a lot longer than a software developer who tucked away what they could over the years. If a real crash happens that so…

In other words, if your retirement savings is $200K and you lose 50% of it, at best you're going to have to make major changes to your plans. At worst (depending on how much debt you have) you're in for some real pain. A billionaire with $200B in wealth could lose 99% of that and still have $2B, generational wealth that will perpetually fund an entire family tree down to great great grandchildren.

Yep and losses are only losses when it's realized. A billionaire can just ride out the crash for 5, 10 or 15 years while investing more when the market is near the bottom. What they are investing in is buying the shares that the middle class has to sell off to pay their rent.

I don't know what you want to label it as but being able to ride out a crash and having your unrealized losses go back to normal while still having capital to buy a ton when the market was near the bottom of a crash sounds like a lot like transferring wealth to me (from the middle to the top).

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#499
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see almost the same argument being made in 1780 in a French salon, after the cost of fielding armies had exploded in the seven year war.

Because it's literally the same basic concept. The fall of the French monarchy and the eventual rise of Napoleon followed the exact same principles: Rich people born into nobility using their military influence and public dissent to overthrow a government and establish themselves as new rulers. The biggest difference here is that Napoleon came from a more modest form of nobility by comparison and was an actual milita…

> Rich people born into nobility using their military influence and public dissent to overthrow a government and establish themselves as new rulers.

Just to be clear, are you saying that the French Revolution was done by the rich born into nobility (even if minor)? Even if the rich still had an advantage during the entire turmoil, I think it's hard to argue that for the decades after 1790 that there wasn't a huge boost to social mobility.

Re: The top 10% owns 87% of the stocks

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The peasant had to pay 20% tax and had free housing and food and worked half the amount of hours / year that we work. And they got revolutions. What does it tell about us?

> worked half the amount of hours / year that we work Source? I have some doubts about this claim. Are you sure this doesn't simply measure one form of labor while ignoring another?

Not really. Check out that reddit thread it goes into details about this topic. It has surprising details.
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