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"Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

whitehouse.gov

491–500 of 1001 posts

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#491
post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This EO says nothing about the Judicial branch and presents a perfectly reasonable policy statement about how legal decisions and interpretation should be made within the executive branch. What specific language in this EO do you have a problem with? I’m no fan of Trump, but this pattern of people hallucinating that Trump said something he didn’t and then freaking out about their nonexistent hallucination, is getting…

Consider this hypothetical: a federal judge rules against the Trump administration's firing of the inspectors general and must offer the fired employees their positions back. The Attorney General says the judge overstepped his constitutional power and calls the ruling invalid. What should the person who would've rehired the employees do? Continue that hypothetical further: the case makes its way to the Supreme Court,…

What’s the solution you have in mind? Anyone in the Executive branch can interpret the law for themselves and disobey an order if they believe they have a legal basis to do so?

That would be completely paralyzing.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem with people being OK with executive overreach when "their team" is in power. Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. We should desire that the legislative side actually legislates and each branch of the government holds the other two in check, regardless of partisan control. Further having our judicial branch become open…

> Eventually, and in fact about 50% of the time - the OTHER team is in power.. and may just push the overreach further. Are you sure this is going to be a fact, in the future? How likely is it, that the next elections will still be (somewhat) fair?

That's the reaction some extreme Trump supporters I know had after 2020. They claimed there would never be another fair election because of the manipulation of the electronic voting machines

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am independent and not a Democrat or a Republican because they are two sides of the same coin. The only sense in which this is true: the GOP are fascist, racist authoritarians who have waged a decades-long war on the middle and lower class; the Democrats aren't. If you think the Democrats and GOP are equally bad, you're out of your mind.

I don't think they are equally bad. GOP are rotten to the core. I don't understand why a new party has not formed to leave the batshit crazies behind.

Because there is no political future in doing so.

Politics is attractive to people with psychopathy. I'm not gonna say they're all that way, but a significant enough chunk of any political apparatus in the US is. If you want to have any chance of getting elected - much less having a real career - you have to play by the rules of those who see humans as means to ends and gamble that their opponents won't go as low to stop them.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can only donate $3500 to any politician. (legally, if you do something illegal and are not caught...). There are complex limits notice when you say something. (for a small city that limit will make them listen, but nothing national or even a large city) What you can do is get out votes. People knocking on doors is still one of the largest drivers of votes so if you organize those systems they will listen to you.

I am not at all familiar with the US system. How come there is a $3500 donation limit to politicians, but the tech billionaires have donated hundreds of millions to the inauguration fund?

The inauguration fund is not used to get someone elected. Different accounts with different rules.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#495
post #327

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

The Supreme Court literally said that Trump has absolute immunity for criminal use of presidential power. Combined with the statistical impossibility of a 2/3 senate majority for impeachment, this is a license to grab as much power as that same court will allow.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't see how legal immunity equates to legal authority.

If you are a government employee and Trump orders you to do something that exceeds his authority, can't you still say no? It seems like the Supreme Court only said that Trump can't get in trouble for asking. I don't think the court said that you have to answer yes.

I'm not trying to say that we're in a great position here or that immunity doesn't have some very destructive effects. But I am saying that we shouldn't act as if he has powers that the Supreme Court hasn't given him.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I am independent and not a Democrat or a Republican because they are two sides of the same coin. The only sense in which this is true: the GOP are fascist, racist authoritarians who have waged a decades-long war on the middle and lower class; the Democrats aren't. If you think the Democrats and GOP are equally bad, you're out of your mind.

I don't think they are equally bad. GOP are rotten to the core. I don't understand why a new party has not formed to leave the batshit crazies behind.

I see. They're two sides of the same coin in the sense that they're both part of the two party system. My original comment is overstatement and maybe melodramatic. Sorry for that, and for the accusation, and thanks for the civil, thoughtful response.

The other comments do a good job of explaining why an alternative party hasn't emerged, better than I probably can, so I'll skip that part. To some extent I do wish (and I gather you share the wish) that the US political system worked more like Europe's multi-party parliamentary democracies, relying on shifting, unstable coalitions rather than monolithic, monopolistic party machinery. On the other hand, I think it was Europe's parliamentary system that preceded, and produced, the Third Reich and other fascist regimes in the early 20th century.

In fact, I wonder whether two-party systems, like the US, on average produce worse outcomes than multi-party parliamentary systems. I'm not sure they do. But I also don't know enough about politics, political theory, or modern history to answer the question myself. I'm not even sure which other political systems are, or were, two party.

Edit:

On second thought, I'm not sure I agree at all with the other comments that explain why alternative parties haven't emerged. The comments all take for granted that there's a desire for an alternative but also that the alternative wouldn't be viable. I'm not sure there is such a desire. Most polls show that GOP voters approve of the party, if I'm not mistaken. So the answer to your question may be a lot grimmer than the one already offered here: there's no third party, very simply, because the overwhelming majority of GOP voters really do want a fascist regime.

On that note, this article is worth reading: https://www.vox.com/2016/3/1/11127424/trump-authoritarianism . It makes a great case against the materialist explanation of authoritarianism's rise in the US (i.e. the claim that Trump voters are angry about their worsening prospects, declining fortunes, and deteriorating communities, often related to the opioid epidemic). Instead, it explains support for authoritarianism as a result of disposition and psychology. That rings true to me. American authoritarians really do care about the things they say they care about -- above all, "woke" politics, transgender people in bathrooms, immigrants, Muslims, people of color receiving preferential (i.e. fair) treatment. They really are fighting a cultural and religious war, not struggling against unfair, challenging economic conditions. They really are just hateful.

They hate secular progressives and want to shut them out of the political process -- and want to brainwash their children.

They hate LGBTQ people and really do want to push them back into the closet -- and ideally wipe them out.

They hate people of color, or those who seek equality, and see nothing wrong with the disadvantages people of color face. Out of one corner of their mouths they'll scream about tradition, their pride in "their" country, and how hard their parents and their parents' parents worked -- and then out of the other corner of their mouths they'll reject that America's history of slavery, Jim Crow, racism, and the like have any continuing relevance or consequences for people of color.

They hate immigrants (or rather brown immigrants) and really do want to close the borders.

They're driven, in short, by a primitive xenophobia triggered by anything different from themselves -- which is why Fake Tan President is their God emperor. He's one of them.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#497
post #442

This EO, combined with his proclamation that "He who saves the country does not violate any law" paint a very concerning picture. This has, historically speaking, been the language of tyrants. No President is above the law, nor does the President "interpret" the law; that is the domain of the Judiciary. “Wherever law ends, tyranny begins”

This EO says nothing about the Judicial branch and presents a perfectly reasonable policy statement about how legal decisions and interpretation should be made within the executive branch. What specific language in this EO do you have a problem with? I’m no fan of Trump, but this pattern of people hallucinating that Trump said something he didn’t and then freaking out about their nonexistent hallucination, is getting…

Imagine finding absolutely no issue with an EO that uses phrases like “so-called independent regulatory agencies”.

This is what Germans must have felt like in 1933.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#498

It may be a good time to study how Stalin came to power in the USSR. It wasn't through the political establishment, but by taking absolute control of the bureaucracy.

The USSR was already a one party dictatorship at that point, so I don't know if that's a relevant example.

Yes, it was a single party government, but not consolidated under a dictator until Stalin. Even Lenin, until he basically retired (was very sick and died soon thereafter), didn't have the iron grip on the government that Stalin did.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#499
post #298

There's a bit of background at https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/5152723-donald-t... . If there are better third-party reports, let me know and I'll add to this list. The above is just the first one bestowed by Google.

Honestly dang, I'm seeing mostly not thoughtful substantive commentary here, just ideological battling. Which is a shame because this is certainly a topic it's possible to do that on (e.g. this comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43105417 ). Are the good comments really worth the large amount of heat?

I'm seeing a lot of helpful discussion, and I'm learning a lot. It's been easy for me to skip over the hyperbole.

Re: "Ensuring Accountability for All Agencies" – Executive Order

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lying and blaming Ukraine for starting the war and taking sides with Russia puts blood on his hands. That an aggressor nation can walk into another country's sovereign territory and annex it with the blessing of a sitting US president is a disgrace.

>> That an aggressor nation can walk into another country's sovereign territory and annex it with the blessing of a sitting US president is a disgrace. They did that first in 2014 under Obama, and again under Biden. The current situation has no criteria for an end - it's an endless conflict. Trump is going to move towards resolution of that and the fighting.

The current round of fighting.

There's still quite a bit of Europe that Russia wants to plunder for resour... I mean... influence. All of Ukraine, Poland, the Baltics, the Balkans - anywhere that used to be a part of the Warsaw Pact - is a target.

Appeasing Putin now will likely see another military action in the next decade, especially if the US significantly reduces or totally ends its commitment to NATO.

To be fair, the US has done nothing but harp on its allies in the organization to increase their g_ddamn defense spending for the better part of three decades now, and only some of them have truly taken it seriously since 2022. Even if spending levels are increased now, it won't have enough of an effect to see battlefield dividends for several years, if not at least a decade. The end result is that the US will be the security backstop for a Europe that has taken American willingness to get into a possible thermonuclear war for granted, in the face of more Russian incursion, no matter how poorly handled that incursion might be.

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