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To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

myteslaexperience.com

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Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#491

Post by refurb »

misja111 wrote: post #359
refurb wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla sales are plummeting all over the world Uhhh...he's selling 5x as many cars than than when Covid hit and nearly the peak of sales...ever? https://cnevpost.com/2025/01/02/tesla-global-deliveries-q4-2...

Sure, if you look back long enough you will eventually manage to find an increase in sales. But most people look at month-over-month or year-over-year figures, and those are terrible. See e.g. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/tesla-sales-plummeting-early...

Ummm. Q4 2024 is the highest quarterly volume ever?

And your article is about a few European countries, not global sales.

And looking at a single month, year over year for a handful of countries doesn’t tell you much.

Tesla seems to be doing fantastic by any measure.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#492

Post by Reubachi »

ryandrake wrote: post #478
smatija wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that this is only for when buying new cars - used models can still be sold and bought without these "niceties". The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one.

> The next car I am going to buy is probably going to be older than my current one. I've also come to this bizarre conclusion. Cars are rapidly regressing. I currently drive an '09, and yearly maintenance costs have begun to approach the value of the car. I'm not sure how long I can economically keep it on the road, but what would I replace it with? A '24 Driving-IoT-Nighmare?

Grass ain't always greener.

Depending on your locale, you're going to need to replace all suspension, steering, exhaust, frame peices etc. on that 09' car you bought used for 6. Will quickly approach 20k in time and money, and at that point, most people bite the bullet and deal with new car bullshit/payments.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#493

Post by Reubachi »

cjrp wrote: post #444
plasticchris wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look at the statistics over time? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_...

Could that be from other things though? Better tyres, improved safety-barrier technology, etc.?

I'm struggling to find the original document/page I read on this, but largely, "a car having better parts is due to the road having features that benefit these parts due to generations of studying the way cars behave in that set of circumstances.

Autos are designed around and for the roads they will serve, not vice versa. This is the bane of auto manufacturers who want to make one tail light housing for all their cars in all their markets.

it's a bit more easy to read data comparing for example safety in Euro market vs American market (there are fundamental differences in safety thoery; lighting, ride heighgt, weight, engine size etc. As opposed to looking at changing trends in one market over 20 years, which are largely stylistic.)

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#494

Post by fho »

> It is the electric car with the lowest consumption (12.5 kW / 100 km)

That is actually one of my pet peeves ... some basic math gives you:

12.5 kWh/100km * 0.4-0.8 €/kW = 5-10 €/100km [1] 12.5 kWh/100km * 393g CO2eq/kWh = 4.913 kg/100km [2]

Now compare that to the Toyota Corolla (Hybrid) that he originally looked at:

4.5 l/100km * 1.6-1.8 €/l = 7-8 €/100km [3] 4.5 l/100km * 2.237 kg/l = 10.7 kg/100km

There are some assumptions that tilt this calculations into the EVs favor though:

1. Charging is never 100% efficient, more likely around 90%. 2. That number is based on E5 fuel, E10 takes some of that off as well. 3. 12.5 kWh/100km is what is given by Tesla, independent tests e.g. by ADAC (German Car "Club") cites 17.2 kWh or 18.6 kWh.

So overall the numbers shift a lot towards the hybrid:

(18.6/0.9) kWh/100km * 0.4-0.8 €/kWh = 8-17 €/100km

(assuming 90% charging efficiency)

---

[1] Common price for electricity in German households, better if you have solar, much worse if you have to buy for 0.6-0.8 €/kW at public chargers. [2] Based on CO2 emmisions in Germany, averaged over a year https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/DE/12mo/monthly ... better in summer (solar), worse in winter (coal). [3] High price for E10 in Germany, more likely 1.6-1.7€/l

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#495

Post by FeloniousHam »

Counterpoint: 25K on 2024 Model 3 purchased new, no maintenance, no problems.

Lack of mechanical fallbacks for many of the screen functions is a (distant) concern, but doesn't keep me up at night.

Re: @tobyhinloopen's complaints about nags: could not agree more. Tesla doesn't have any, but my friend's ICE vehicle is crazy full of them.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#496

Post by Reubachi »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #307
jemmyw wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reversing cameras are required by law and they need a screen.

Should front facing cameras be required by law (in USA) too? The bonnet height of USA vehicles appears to be adult shoulder height. If you're 5ft/150cm tall or under they're lethal.

I have a 22 Miata with all options, which is about shortest hood you can get in the us.

The vehicle HAS A front facing camera, it takes up a huge portion of the front windscreen. There's no way to see an image from the front camera.

Is it there to....To tell me if i'm...about to crash? it has no automatic cruise or anything. Absolutely puzzling.

Another gripe about this car; "car play" works about half the time. Maybe. 20 percent of the other half, whole display freezes until I restart the car. Mazda can't figure it out and what am I gonna do, lemon it?

mye 15 year old other mazda hatchback connects to bluetooth instantly as soon as i turn the car on and begins to play music.

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#497

Post by dzhiurgis »

4ndrewl wrote: post #373
dzhiurgis wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They just don’t die Because they only have features of 90s car, not 2020s car. It's just shockingly bare. A lot of times coupled with dull drivers so must be some confirmation bias too.

No-one: Manufacturers: "Did someone say heated seats-as-a-service?"

This one is just silly since it's not making any serious money to manufacturer.

That said we shouldn't stop car evolution because one shitty manufacturer fucked up. If you wan't one - you can always buy a Lada, they were perfect since 70s...

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#498

Post by maxerickson »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #307
jemmyw wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reversing cameras are required by law and they need a screen.

Should front facing cameras be required by law (in USA) too? The bonnet height of USA vehicles appears to be adult shoulder height. If you're 5ft/150cm tall or under they're lethal.

Probably. Could have two classes for forward visibility, one that didn't and one that did.

I wouldn't make the camera a free for all though, it makes sense for pretty good direct visibility to be a design priority (so the camera would be required on cars that had okay but not great forward visibility and it wouldn't be allowed to build anything else).

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#499

Post by [deleted] »

tomp wrote: post #441
cma wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same in US: your car has externalities on others. Even if it was a one seater you'd up everyone else's liability insurance without the chime.

do you have any studies that back that up? IMO the chime, if anything, decreases safety (it interrupts the driver's attention)

[deleted]

Re: To buy a Tesla Model 3, only to end up in hell

#500

Post by dzhiurgis »

wesselbindt wrote: post #398
starbugs wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> https://www.adac.de/news/tuev-report-2025/ This is about what cars made it through the German TÜV. Not about reliability.

To me it seems like a perfectly sound proxy measure of reliability. Why do you believe otherwise?

It's not. It assesses road-worthiness (aka safety), not reliability.

That article is often quoted in sensationalist media to smear Tesla. Look for actual mileage data and they are one of the, if not THE most reliable vehicle.

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