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They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

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Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#491

Post by [deleted] »

dbspin wrote: post #331
graemep wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gove was right. The problem is that experts no longer have to explain or justify themselves or explain the level of evidence behind their opinions. Expertise has also been politicised. Experts are picked who give the prior decided opinions, and those who have the wrong opinion are got rid of (e.g. Professor David Nutt). Finally Gove was speaking in the context of Brexit, and arguing that it ultimately a question of n…

Not to politicise this discussion, but the country is called 'The Republic of Ireland'. The phrase 'the Irish Republic' references the 1916 Easter proclamation, and has specific political and even colonial implications in Ireland. It's frequently used on BBC news, but never in Ireland where it would have a similar connotation to 'the free state' or other radical republican delegitimisations of the Irish state.

[deleted]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#492

Post by fransje26 »

LarsDu88 wrote: post #473
9dev wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…and the YC CEO defending the hostile takeover of government agencies by (smart, I give you that, but still) teenagers.

A 20 something is hardly a teenager. Alexander Hamilton was like 21 years old at the start of the American Revolution

I don't think you can compare the maturity of a 21 year old from the time of the American Revolution with the maturity of a 20 year old nowadays, no..

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#493

Post by Ste_Tokyo »

edanm wrote: post #480
Ste_Tokyo wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Palestinians are in the situation they are in because of their own choices, not because of some Greater Israel plan which the poster seems to think is the reason. The German people and the Japanese people suffered similar privations in WW2 - shouldn’t have attacked Poland and Pearl Harbor then. Choices have consequences. Do you see this rather simple point now?

> Do you see this rather simple point now? There's no need to talk to me in this way, either. Whether or not you're right, you're not doing your arguments any favor by being mean to other commenters with no reason.

[flagged]

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#494

Post by noduerme »

scoofy wrote: post #467
ookblah wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't even want to give people that benefit at this point. used to think that it was education, circumstances, outside forces, culture, etc. like "if only" we had XYZ then we can prevent this. at this point i just want to call it "stupidity". not even a left vs right thing. there exists a subset of the population that cannot and will not be educated or have the ability to reason on a certain level to make things wo…

This sentiment is exactly what David Lynch explores over, and over, and over: Why are some people willing to be so evil. I think we tell ourselves it’s environment or inequity or education… but the older I get, the more I think there is a kind of lack of conscientiousness that most people have, and that they are decent folks is only that they have something to lose. Unless a theory can explain the prevalence of litte…

There is a theory, and it's called sadistic child abuse. Maybe optimistically only 20% of people who had wicked and abusive parents grow up to take that sadism out on others. But they have a draw on their peers, as sociopaths, enticing them to indulge in or excuse sadistic acts. And of course they perpetuate it through violence on their own children. Once they reach a critical mass in a society, you have Russia.

If they do it but they're not quite aware of it, and think they're teaching children a lesson, then you have Germany.

And if they do it because they're saving their children's souls, you have red state America.

Of course, it's abuse, a psychotic perversion dressed up as a social norm. But the point is it's contagious.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#495

Post by simianparrot »

etchalon wrote: post #421
simianparrot wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Explain how shutting down USAID due to documented fraudulent spending strengthens the president’s power. I can’t think of a single way myself, but maybe I’m overlooking something?

Explain "documented fraudulent spending", who is making these claims, what evidence they've presented, and what groups have checked that evidence.

Off the top of my head and easily verifiable from their own website, how about funding "revolutions" in foreign countries? https://web.archive.org/web/20060130080730/http://www.usaid....

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#496

Post by noduerme »

wiether wrote: post #263
yodsanklai wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In France, I remember we read several classic allegories on that theme at schools. Rhinoceros by Ionesco (even watched it in the theater as a school trip), also The Plague (Albert Camus). I didn't think much of it when I was a teenager, but I'm looking at them on the light of these recent events. Especially Rhinoceros on ideological contagion.

Yes we did, but I think that the people who needed it the most, were the ones who either didn't had to read it (the ones not in a "lycée général") or whent through because it was required but didn't tried to understand the meaning. More broadly, as teenagers, most of us didn't had the maturity to truely grasp the meaning ; and the ones who did probably already where sensitive enough to don't fall in the same traps. I…

Odd things can enlighten someone. I was outside a gay bar in Avignon when a guy I knew who was hardcore FN hesitated and then sat down next to me, a Jew, and had an honest conversation. I think it doesn't take too much to enlighten French people, because much of the template for plurality and tolerance is already there and built into the culture. Then again, there are always some true assholes.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#497

Post by noduerme »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #426
noduerme wrote: post #73

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

I think the thing that has been most surprising to me is how utterly transparent our current situation has been. I like to say "When it comes to the end of the Republic, I thought it would have all been quite a bit sneakier." Like the way that all of the Republicans in congress folded like a cheap suit and are now completely subservient to Trump - "Profiles in Cowardice" from top-to-bottom, with the exception of a fe…

Yes, pinning our hopes on Bill Cassidy to head off catastrophe was a bit like hoping your oncologist would show up bright and early with good news...

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#498

Post by noduerme »

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #109
noduerme wrote: post #73

"The Germans" is an absolutely jaw dropping read, a series of interviews with average German citizens and low-level nazi party members, conducted a decade or so after the war, by an American Jewish journalist. It shows, in first hand accounts, the banality of evil and how easily it can prevail if people do nothing. It is an account of modern tyranny and everyday collaboration. The parallels in the feeling of what's h…

I remember I once stumbled upon pictures of the daily life of ordinary nazis. They looked so normal, having fun, teasing each other, drinking and playing instruments. There is even a video where hitler is shying away from his love companion. This was a shock to me as a kid: evil doesn't look like the caricature of "the very bad guy", it emerges in every day people. I think we failed to communicate that. It was too te…

That's exactly why this book is so valuable and important. It shows the link between a happy daily life in a nice clean country (that happens to be at war) and the insane things those people ignored at the same time in order to act normal every day. Once you read it, you will look around at America in a completely different way. Because unlike ignoring something done in the past (slavery, colonization) this is not arguably not the fault of the people pretending normal through it. It's happening in realtime. The thing to look for is the mix of apathy and fear.

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#499

Post by noduerme »

nouripenny wrote: post #233
aisenik wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Worse, on the other side, outraged people abused the term nazi to call out anybody that had a bad behavior. But there is a huge difference between being an asshole and being ready to commit genocide. > Eventually it means the word nazi lost all of its meaning. And all of its usefulness to defend ourselves. Do I understand that while the United States is undergoing a radical neonazi revolution lead by the tech indus…

Well, I think so. Because many didn't understand they were fascists too. The fascism was always in the vast majority of us, if we wanted to look at it. Just look at the structure of our workplaces, which accounts for half our waking lives. There's no free speech in them. With few exceptions, they're intensely hierarchical, people passing orders downward. Those "unlucky" enough to make it inside one of them, often sle…

So radical anti-capitalism caused the gambling public to spin the slot machine?

Re: They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 (1955)

#500

Post by edanm »

Ste_Tokyo wrote: post #493
edanm wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you see this rather simple point now? There's no need to talk to me in this way, either. Whether or not you're right, you're not doing your arguments any favor by being mean to other commenters with no reason.

[flagged]

> Now do you see, my darling?

Once again, your argument aside, your way of speaking is the issue here. If you think you're winning anyone to your arguments in this way, you're wrong.

> And point two is that if you see these facts and decide that you support the Gazans, then you are not holding a different view, you are guilty of being an apologist to Ghengis Khan-level savagery and therefore are deserving of condemnation.

No, your point is wrong. You switched between talking about Hamas to talking about Gazans.

It is entirely consistent to be against Hamas but still support Gazans. In fact, some people claim that supporting Gazans means being against Hamas, because of Hamas's brutal dictatorship over the Gazans.

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