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We're forking Flutter

flutterfoundation.dev

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Re: We're forking Flutter

#491

Post by DeathArrow »

alberth wrote: post #407
1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

Rails has 12 core developers + 5 committers. https://rubyonrails.org/community

And 17 users.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#492

Post by nottorp »

1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

But does python use protobufs and monorepos and ?

Maybe they have more time to work on the software because of less overhead...

Re: We're forking Flutter

#493

Post by DeathArrow »

malkia wrote: post #364
1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

Python is an engine, flutter is the whole car.

Then Django or Pytorch are cars, too.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#494

Post by anonzzzies »

1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

Python is really not the same as Flutter. Compare Python to Dart instead.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#495

Post by DeathArrow »

lolinder wrote: post #400
malkia wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python is an engine, flutter is the whole car.

If Flutter is a car, Python is at least four different models of car, plus three models of light truck and one airplane. The scope of Python's standard library is just enormous.

And Python is written in C, unlike Flutter which is written in Dart.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#496

Post by wiseowise »

Capricorn2481 wrote: post #476
wiseowise wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Flutter in Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed! Killed the framework for good, true. No pattern matching, joke destructuring, static delegation, reliance on Gradle (puke). I don’t understand how Dart still has bad reputation when it leapfrogged this joke of a language long time ago.

Just seems like personal preferences. I've used languages with extensive pattern matching and don't feel like I'm missing out without them. Don't really see the problem with Gradle or Static Delegation either.

Then you won’t understand what made Flutter “click”. I work with Kotlin, Gradle and Compose on a day to day job and it is absolutely dreadful experience. Sure, it beats working with Java… Java 8.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#497

Post by serial_dev »

xster wrote: post #386
EngVagabond wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does that automatically run against every PR? What mitigations did you have to put in place for Google security to allow running untrusted code from PRs on internal CI?

Semi-automatically. Googlers have to review it.

Also known as “manually”.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#498

Post by wiseowise »

999900000999 wrote: post #373
refulgentis wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I agree, trying to use Kotlin instead of Dart would have killed Flutter. I've been hearing about Kotlin multiplatform just as long as flutter, and writing Kotlin since 2019. Kotlin is a horrible daily driver. I worked on Android for Google at 7 years, and maybe it'd have a better chance if it didn't win internally. As it stands, there's too many organizational boundaries created, and each organization holds itse…

I'm going to be honest. C# , NodeJS, Python and rarely Java( had a rough year), pay my bills. Flutter/Dart doesn't. If you know someone hiring a Flutter developer I'm 100% down to interview. I don't hate Kotlin, it feels like Google's answer to Swift( although Java was never as hard as Objective C). I even built a small project with it. Can we at least agree it's weird Google is trying to promote 2 different language…

> Can we at least agree it's weird Google is trying to promote 2 different languages for multiplatform development?

Google doesn’t promote anything. There are two competing teams with their own agendas. Flutter’s bills are mostly paid by internal usage, as far as I know. Android is mainly focused on Android part of Compose.

Multiplatform Compose, on the other hand, is mostly pushed by JetBrains to eat some of Flutter’s lunch and promote Kotlin usage to drive their IDE sales.

> Let me compare Unity to Flutter for a bit. When Unity jobs are hard to come by, I'm still an OK C# dev. Flutter/Dart doesn't offer they same freedom. Say what you want about Microsoft, but C# can essentially do anything. Including keeping me employed.

I might be wrong, as I’ve worked with .Net professionally, but I doubt you can jump from Senior Unity C# developer to Senior Asp.Net developer. Language is a small part in modern development.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#499

Post by DeathArrow »

wruza wrote: post #389
malkia wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python is an engine, flutter is the whole car.

I doubt that complexity of a language is comparable to that of a widget library. After the text input cell and scrolling window it’s basically dumb geometry/drawing code all along.

It's much harder to to implement a language in a proper way than writing a widget library.

But that hardness comes from the level of knowledge one must have in different fields such as compiler theory, cathegory theory, hardware, beside classical computer science and coding.

To write a widget library you just have to know how to code and have some experience.

That being said, the amount of work for implementing a widget library might be higher, but is less qualified work being done.

I dabbled in computer language theory and compilers and it's hard. I have no issues reading source code for widget and GUI libraries.

Re: We're forking Flutter

#500

Post by broodbucket »

DeathArrow wrote: post #488
1st1 wrote: post #348

> How large is the Flutter team, today? Google doesn't publish this information, but my guess is that the team is about 50 people strong. > That's 50 people serving the needs of 1,000,000. Doing a little bit of division, that means that every single member of the Flutter team is responsible for the needs of 20,000 Flutter developers! That ratio is clearly unworkable for any semblance of customer support. This is a we…

> This is a weird exercise. Python, for example, is a #1/#2 language in the world and there's only 50 active core devs, 90% of which don't even work on Python full time. Somehow we make that work. But that leaves Python slow and single threaded.

https://docs.python.org/3/howto/free-threading-python.html
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