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Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

innocenceproject.org

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Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#491

Post by gklitz »

anon291 wrote: post #423
brewdad wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor is he required to give an explanation. The prosecutor must prove that possession of the items leads to proof of guilt.

He is not required, but absent an explanation, a jury might think him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. After all, if your husband comes home late at night with lipstick all over him in a drunken stupor and unzipped pants, and then, as you threaten divorce and kick him out of the house, he offers no explanation, you too might think him guilty. Whereas, if he claims to have been assaulted by a very large woman you mig…

> He is not required, but absent an explanation, a jury might think him guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

That’s just plainly insane. Absence of proof of innocence is not proof guilt. It’s not even suggestive of proof, let alone proof without a resonable doubt!? That would leave half the country with a death sentence because they don’t have reliable affirmative proof that they didn’t commit this murder. Do you remember where you were on the day the murder happened? If you cannot provide proof, we’ll consider you guilty of murder beyond reasonable doubt.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#492

Post by ratg13 »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I am for the death penalty.

Unfortunately cases like this come along where it is not applied correctly, forcing us to have to face the reality that we are not capable of using it as a proper tool.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#493

Post by arp242 »

karpatic wrote: post #395
arp242 wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legally speaking Stalin's purges were also not murder, by definition. It's obvious the previous poster was making a point of morality, not legality. You can of course disagree with that morality. That's fine. But going "but akshually the law says..." is being highly obtuse.

Chiming in like this makes me wounder what your view on abortion is. I'm not asking, though.

I'm not really sure if I follow how that relates?

I'm just saying that "X is legal" is not really a good counter to "X is not moral", which of course also applies in the reverse. Legality and morality are just not the same thing.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#494

Post by redundantly »

Dalewyn wrote: post #346
redundantly wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This downplays the GOP’s role. Their decades-long plan, including stacking the courts, reveals just how hateful and ruthless they are in pursuing their agenda. While Democrats could have done more, obstacles like the filibuster and narrow majorities made passing protections difficult. The bigger issue is the GOP’s deliberate and depraved effort to strip away rights. Don’t give them a pass on it by blaming others.

Ruthless? Sure. Hateful? No. Kindly stop furthering the societal division in our country.

Yes, hateful. Restricting human rights oppresses, controls, and dehumanizes people.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#495

Post by pcthrowaway »

truetraveller wrote: post #487
amatecha wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except.. > The woman at first denied having information about the crime, prosecutors’ motion states. But after meeting with police several times – and being promised charges she was facing would be dropped and told she would be eligible for the reward – Asaro eventually cooperated, telling police she had indeed seen Williams on the afternoon of the murder, the motion states. https://www.cnn.com/2024/08/21/us/marcellu…

Wow...that is amazing dishonesty on the part of the governor if this is true. Incredible how hard people are trying to hide facts.

There should be criminal penalties for prosecution or people involved with the chain of evidence for criminal trials failing to mention details that might sway the jury towards defense

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#496

Post by infamouscow »

foxyv wrote: post #459
calderarrow wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be, for most of the same reasons as you. What ultimately convinced me was realizing that our judicial system can never be 100% perfect, so we would always have a non-zero number of innocent people executed as long as capital punishment is on the table. To me, I think the cost of keeping people incarcerated is worth the cost of accidentally executing innocent citizens. Put a bit more personally: would you su…

I used to think that false convictions were rare. In capital cases like this one it is close to 4%! That made me think, is it worth killing 4 innocent people to avoid having to imprison 96 guilty ones for the rest of their life? If I went out with a gun and killed 100 people, 4 innocent and 96 justifiably, I may as well be number 97.

I'm curious what percentage of false convictions are caused by LEO and DA omitting or destroying evidence.

I suspect, ignorantly, that it's north of 70%. If anyone should be getting the death penalty, it should be those that abuse power granted to them by the people.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#497

Post by satiric »

diogenes_atx wrote: post #253

Many of the contributors to this thread are under the wrong impression that the police found the victim's laptop and other items in Marcellus Williams' car. This is not true. According to Wikipedia, the murder occurred in August 1998, but it was not until May 1999 that the victim's family "announced a $10,000 reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case. In response, two individuals, Henry C…

"Lara Asaro... gave testimony that Williams had confessed to her" I know very little about this kind of thing, but isn't this hearsay?

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#498

Post by qingcharles »

coryfklein wrote: post #406
lm28469 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's almost never incontrovertible proof in a criminal trial Having watched a few FBI interrogations and other true crime related videos there certainly are such proofs. I have a few of these come to mind, like the dude who killed his ex, took the house surveillance cameras down after the facts but didn't know they were backed up on servers, he was caught with the cameras in his truck shortly after. Most of thes…

I wonder how one would encode such a level of burden of truth into the legal system such that the "really incontrovertible" cases are distinguishable from the "not really incontrovertible" ones.

This is just down to the jury :/

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#499

Post by mrangle »

gen220 wrote: post #465
mrangle wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lost in translation, the Commandment is not to murder. Legal killing of the guilty (of murder), and in self defense for example, is not murder. Just as it isn't in the secular legal system. Therefore, there is no conflict. That's not to say that there isn't room for mercy when called for. Also, prudence should be exercised to the highest possible standard and then some. No one has broken a Commandment by executing Te…

Christ gave commandments that superseded the Mosaic law. He explicitly forbade violence in all forms, with no exceptions for retaliation. And he went further to say you should respond to violence with nonviolent love and submission. Christ would not endorse capital punishment of Bundy, soldiers in any army, or “stand your ground” style killings.

That's false on all counts. You're engaging in incorrect conjecture in regard to what he stated. Further, what Christ "would not endorse" is your conjecture and not fact.

Christianity is not about allowing society be destroyed by its internal enemies such as criminals and their syndicates, nor about blanket injustice for victims, nor about allowing foreign armies to overtake it (often destroying Christianity). How ridiculous. Although that would be a convenient misinterpretation for wayward Christians, anti-Christians and society's enemies.

Imagine giving your statement to virtually any historical Christian Society of any significant size. Such flirtation with this type of interpretation has always been fringe at best or outright secular (from Christianity's enemies), and always incorrect.

Re: Who is Marcellus Williams: Execution in Missouri despite evidence of innocence

#500

Post by seec »

TrapLord_Rhodo wrote: post #434

Am i the only one in favor of capital punishment in this thread? My mom used to work at state hospital for the criminally insane. The stories she would tell me about how these people got in there were absolutely brutal. (Canabalism, satanic sacrafices of loved ones, all manor of wierd shit.). Instead of executing these lunatics, they send them to a "State Hospital" for rehabilitation. It's not a Prison, but a hospita…

I believe that people against it are either incredibly annoying idealists (who fail to understand that perfect is the enemy of good) or full-on barbarian who rejoices at the idea of wasting someone's life in a much worse way than just killing him.

I believe long-term imprisonment is much worse than death, especially since there is no real life possible after so much time in prison. It is truly worse than death from a humanity point of view.

I don't believe the nonsense about potentially innocent people, if justice isn't completely certain, then they can put them in prison awaiting more evidence.

But I think it is actually pretty rare, the problem is mostly lack of evidence; you don't get trouble with justice when you are a good citizen and juste mind your own business.

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