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Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

theguardian.com

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Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#491
post #103

The detainment order was outstanding for some time, and Durov certainly knew that. Still he plainly landed in France and was detained. Why? My pet tinfoil-hat theory is that he decided that staying in a French prison is safer for him than being out in the open and get some polonium, or whatnot.

He has a lavish lifestyle and France is the capital of luxury

And rats

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#492
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because he is the CEO doesn’t mean he is directly liable. The company is a separate entity. I don’t see anyone arresting Elon or other CEOs because of “not enough moderation.” Most actions are to block platform access. There must be something else for sure.

CEOs can be liable for intentional or grossly negligent non-compliance, among other things.

Owning a company providing a secure communication product is not negligent nor non-compliance.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> well, at least Signal Basically only Signal + Whatsapp. > claiming they don't do anything for privacy. Well, Signal is kind of a scam in that regard.

How is Signal "a kind of scam in that regard"?

Government funding?

Mandatory phone number exposure? (or did they finally implement usernames?)

A joke of a "registration lock pin" instead a proper 2FA to protect against sim-swap?

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#494

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

> I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law How is a channel "against the law?" Do you mean access to the channel is creating opportunities for lawlessness that simply wouldn't exist otherwise? I'm not sure the French justice system has demonstrated that it has exhausted all options other than to handcuff a CEO of one particular plat…

A channel that incites violence is against the law (in some countries). A channel selling drugs is against the law. These are few examples. I do not how the specific details of the French case to comment on the specifics. I could believe the arrest is poorly justified, but I have reasonably belief in their justice system.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#495
post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking cause I don’t know - can you provide iOS level iMessage encryption safely on Android when you don’t control the hardware?

Safety wise, Signal (or PGP email) on GrapheneOS is probably as good as it gets since it's all audited free open source code.

I didn't know Signal app had access to a secure enclave chip.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#496

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

Ah very interesting. Thanks for making that distinction! To me, I’m wondering at what critical mass of people should you need to provide a back door to the government? Is it 2? 3? 100? 1000? Are the number of people the right indicator here? Genuinely curious of people’s thoughts. I haven’t though too deeply about this.

There is no need for backdoor anything, when there are public channels. I do not know the specifics of French case though, so I don't know if their case is about those or some private chats.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#497

A bunch of people in comments here seem to misunderstand what telegram is. It is not just a messaging app, it is essentially a platform like twitter, with channels, hundreds of thousands of subscribers to those. While I fully support E2EE communication with no back-doors, I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law. I do not know the t…

> I think it is perfectly fair for governments to have some control to take down large channels that are clearly against the law How is a channel "against the law?" Do you mean access to the channel is creating opportunities for lawlessness that simply wouldn't exist otherwise? I'm not sure the French justice system has demonstrated that it has exhausted all options other than to handcuff a CEO of one particular plat…

drug trade, crypto scam coordination. All on Telegram.

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#498
post #414
post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So just give me an apple messaging client on my non-apple devices. It is insanely, practically criminally, anti-social to lock your messaging system into your devices alone. It's like the Joker is running the business decisions over there. Who cares, let's just watch the world burn.

Asking cause I don’t know - can you provide iOS level iMessage encryption safely on Android when you don’t control the hardware?

In principle you can do the same thing of having keys in a secure enclave that can only be accessed if the bootloader and OS were signed with an appropriate key and not revoked. In practice there would certainly be a larger attack surface because you've now got n different hardware secure enclaves, n different bootloaders, and n different OS implementations, and a flaw in any one of them is potentially all that an attacker needs. Would you allow apple to apply a high standard and e.g. blacklist manufacturers who repeatedly had holes in their implementation? Would you trust Huawei's implementation to not have a hidden backdoor accessible only to the Chinese state and not discoverable otherwise? (Do you trust Apple's implementation to not have the same for the US/Israel?)

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#499

Not clear right now if France thinks he was actively complicit with the four horsemen listed, or if just the act of running Telegram makes him complicit in their eyes, or something in the middle, e.g. they asked for help and Telegram turned them down. This will be an interesting case to watch -- I don't believe there are any western nations that want non-locally-backdoored messaging of any sort -- but generally my un…

[deleted]

Re: Telegram founder Pavel Durov arrested at French airport

#500
post #390
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does this mean that according to EU, or France, E2E-encrypted platforms need to "cooperate" (provide backdoors)? Or does it refer to public channels only?

It means the post office is next, followed by the phone company.

The phone company has long cooperated with government. And while I’ve never heard of anything, the post office _is_ owned by the government in the US.
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