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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that "unskilled labor" is like the other two in just being spin on "I don't approve of market forces"?

To me its funny that those who always talk about unskilled labour are the same who don’t have a driving licence, nor know how to make an omelette

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#492
post #488
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of "underpaid" and "fair" wages is fundamentally subjective. Is a burger flipper underpaid because he cant raise a family a buy a house on that wage, "underpaid"? Or is his labor simply not that valuable? Is a techbro making $300k "underpaid" because his employer is making $500k off his work? On the other hand skilled vs unskilled labor, as well as the concept of human capital are well recognized concepts…

Ah yes, the famously objective field of economics.

Are you suggesting that the difference in skill level between a burger flipper and an accountant is purely subjective?

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#493
post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any ideas whats stopping it from becoming much cheaper? RFIDs on everything seem like a good move in the robotics age.

I don't want rfid tags in my apples, and putting them on the outside of each one seems costly. And things like onions have a loose outer skin, which falls off. And grocery store clerks peel the outside (wilting) leaves off of things like local lettuce daily. Seems like rfid on groceries would be hard for fresh produce, and we don't need everything wrapped in plastic.

You won't have it anyway. An rfid tag tag placed on any conductor (apples are conductors because of their water content) 'detunes' the tag and makes it impossible to read

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#494
post #194

Uniqlo (in Japan and at least in SF) has a cool checkout method. You drop your clothes into a big bin (I’ve always done it one piece at a time, didn’t think to do all at once) and it adds up all your items. I’ve used this maybe 8 times, 100% accurate so far. Not sure how it works but I guessed RFID and quick Google appears to confirm: https://www.wsj.com/articles/uniqlos-parent-company-bets-big...

Self checkout systems based on RFID are very convenient, quick and quite accurate compared to self checkout on grocery stores'l. The main problem on groceries is that the tags are expensive compared to the product (tags prices are in the order of tens of cents depending on manufacturer and size) Disclaimer: I work on a RFID reader manufacturing company

It is almost here. Computer vision combined with some secret sauce that is cheaper than RFID that Walmart is asking supplier to implement.

https://kioskindustry.org/walmart-self-checkout/

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Self checkout systems based on RFID are very convenient, quick and quite accurate compared to self checkout on grocery stores'l. The main problem on groceries is that the tags are expensive compared to the product (tags prices are in the order of tens of cents depending on manufacturer and size) Disclaimer: I work on a RFID reader manufacturing company

Any ideas whats stopping it from becoming much cheaper? RFIDs on everything seem like a good move in the robotics age.

I forgot to add that rfid tags placed on conductors are hard to read so food is a specially hard product to work with

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Underpaid" and "fair" is a modern political myth, except in the instances when there is a concerted effort to undermine the semi-natural labor market. Pay will never be enough, as a point of fact. It will always be "underpaid" and "unfair" in discussion. As this is an immortal pressure and negotiating tactic. It is incentivized, and therefore we will get more of it. That works both ways, but at some point there has…

> Pay will never be enough, as a point of fact can you explain this a bit further please? also, what's the storm that's coming?

Maybe that "storm" is consequences of unchecked ML, make the rich richer and the powerful more powerful, push the poor out of jobs. I disagree that fair pay is impossible though.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#497
post #194

Uniqlo (in Japan and at least in SF) has a cool checkout method. You drop your clothes into a big bin (I’ve always done it one piece at a time, didn’t think to do all at once) and it adds up all your items. I’ve used this maybe 8 times, 100% accurate so far. Not sure how it works but I guessed RFID and quick Google appears to confirm: https://www.wsj.com/articles/uniqlos-parent-company-bets-big...

This exists in most UNIQLOs it's the same mechanism through which the alarm goes off when someone attempts to steal things with the magnetic RFID attached.

It's borderline ancient tech. So why is it not applied everywhere? Because stores would rather have you line up and buy stuff from the "impulse aisle" and tip or donate at their PoS (higher rates with an employee glaring at your selection)

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just exploitative business. I know companies that operate in that space and they pay incredibly well, between $20 to $50/hour. > GPT APIs which perform just as well That's because they were also trained by exploiting third world groups, paying about $2/hour. The problem here isn't offering work to developing countries, the problem here is major corporations squeezing them for every cent and not allowing it to…

if you don't think FAANGs (and most companies) participate in "exploitative business" you should find out how your iphone was made (hint: lots of exploited workers).

Never said it wasn't. Amazon's antics especially are well known. The point here is that data labelling itself isn't fundamentally exploitative, even when leveraging developing countries.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#499
post #190

This is pretty sad to read. Before Covid, the Amazon Go store experience was phenomenal. All the convenience of a 7-Eleven but with the pricing of a normal grocery store. The food options were really good and the BlueApron style meal-kits were amazing. The Alexa integration was also nice for being able to just verbally ask what's the next step on a recipe while you're busy stirring or chopping things. When it rolled…

> The painful clunkiness of self-checkout was gone.

It could be worse. Imagine a smart gate that refuses to open for wheelchair users, or claims the child in your arms is an unpaid item - something that is getting rolled out in many Australian supermarkets.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#500
post #310

this might be my first comment here heh. i've worked on a similar product before. there's no way they were turning a profit. they definitely missed stuff all the time even with a ton of sensors. and sensors aren't the only cost. annotation is by far the most costly operational expense. new product? needs several annotated photos and recalibrated weight sensors. merchant decides to put Christmas branding on the same U…

the biggest cost is not annotators at the scale you're imagining. it is labor costs.

Amazon bet that the federal govt would raise labor costs to $20/hr and all their competitors (besides themselves with this tech) would get wiped out. They even publicly campaigned and lobbied. That didn't come to fruition as the election promises turned to fluff, and the populists simply chose to empower unions instead.

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