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European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

arstechnica.com

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Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#491

Post by close04 »

yreg wrote: post #420
close04 wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What people call "real buttons" usually require a certain force and travel to activate. Capacitive buttons require little to no force or feedback, sometimes not even solid contact. I think the easiest way to understand the difference is to ask 2 questions: "can I put my finger on that button and not immediately trigger it" and "can I can physically tell that I am triggering it (ideally some physical travel)?" If the…

It depends. The solid state button under the MacBook trackpad is indistinguishable from the previous physical button.

I wrote more in the comment above but just to add that the old trackpad is not the best point reference. This is just Apple chasing thinness by making any button barely have any travel. Signal or wiper stalks have 2 orders of magnitude more travel.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#492

Post by diggan »

trgn wrote: post #463
nly wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been driving for 15 years and only ever used my horn once.

You're making the world a better place. 100% sincere. 99% of time there is absolutely no reason to honk. People only do it because the button is there and they're safely insulated from getting punched.

> 99% of time there is absolutely no reason to honk

Could it also be that in different places, there are different expectations, and different environments that makes people use the honk for various purposes?

I get that in the US it seems to mostly be a social signal of "fuck you", but in Spain where I mainly drive, I've avoided a couple of accidents by honking after seeing cars slowly coming close to my own car on the highway, especially when passing lone cars when things are no so busy. People seem to stop paying attention then.

Then in Peru the honking is seemingly constant, and people honk in prevention when they pass you, like a "just in case" honk. Honking seems to be a way of life there, rather than for emergencies.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#493

Post by alistairSH »

elif wrote: post #425
iforgotpassword wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But even then, how do you find the A/C or volume control on a touch screen without taking your eyes off the road, without accidentally touching something else? You just can't feel your way to the volume knob. Sure, you are a responsible driver and would only do that at a traffic light or other completely safe situation, but I don't know how many accidents touch controls in cars already caused with less responsible dr…

I know it will cost me karma to point it out, but in a Tesla you can use voice control to adjust your AC/radio/navigation while your eyes are on the road and your car's 10 eyes are on the road.

Does it work if you have a thick (non-American or non-RP) accent? Serious question.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMS2VnDveP8

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#494

Post by williamcotton »

concordDance wrote: post #298
williamcotton wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that’s why everyone who drives a Tesla never uses their turn signal?

I've seen hundreds of Teslas driving in the UK and they're just as likely to use a turn signal as anyone else (~99%). I'm not sure I've seen a less substantive comment on hacker news that wasn't flagged.

People in the UK actually use their turn signals. Try driving around Central Texas. The joke, as another commenter pointed out, used to be BMW drivers. There is some kind of linear relationship between the luxury of a car and the lack of conscientiousness amongst many American drivers.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#495

Post by ack »

moogly wrote: post #445
Vespasian wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ultimately decided against an MEB based model because the (steering wheel) UX felt almost unusable during my test drive. I partcularily struggeled with the cruise control swipe-click and hilariously the window switch. The car i ultimately settled on has worse overall infotainment software but physical controls which can be operated blindely and reliably. No wonder VW is already in the process of correcting this dis…

Doesn't Skoda have pretty sensible steering wheels still?

The Skoda I just rented in Portugal has real controls but they were really horrible. Even once I got used to their locations, I regularly made something happened than I wanted. Rear windows open instead of front, etc. There's even a control for the digital dashpanel enticing one to play with the display while driving.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#496

Post by mavhc »

modeless wrote: post #207

> Now, Euro NCAP is not insisting on everything being its own button or switch. But the organization wants to see physical controls for turn signals, hazard lights, windshield wipers, the horn, and any SOS features This is much more reasonable than I assumed. Unlike seemingly most people here I have no problem whatsoever with fan controls or audio controls or whatever on the touchscreen, as long as it is responsive (…

Let's check all those items with the Tesla Model 3 2024 manual

To engage a turn signal, press the corresponding arrow button on the left side of the steering wheel. (The buttons move on the Highland steering wheel)

Turn signals: To turn on the hazard warning flashers, press the button on the drive mode selector located on the overhead center. All turn signals flash. Press again to turn off.

Hazard lights: Overhead console drive mode selector with arrow pointing to hazard warning light button in the middle.

If a severe crash is detected by your vehicle, the hazard warning flashers will automatically turn on and flash quickly to increase visibility. Pressing the hazard warning flashers once will return the lights to their normal cadence. Pressing a second time turns all hazard warning flashers off.

To sound the horn, press and hold the center pad on the steering wheel.

You can access wiper settings by touching the wiper button on the steering wheel

Press the wiper button on the steering wheel to wipe the windshield.

Press and hold the wiper button to spray washer fluid onto the windshield. After releasing the button, the wipers perform two additional wipes then, depending on vehicle and environmental conditions, a third wipe a few seconds later. You can also press and hold the wiper button for a continuous spray of washer fluid—the wipers perform the wipes after you release.

Whenever you press the wiper button on the steering wheel, the touchscreen displays the wiper menu, allowing you to adjust wiper settings. Press the left scroll button on the steering wheel left or right to choose your desired setting.

Off/Auto/Intermittent slow/fast/Continuous slow/fast

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#497

Post by drewzero1 »

ndsipa_pomu wrote: post #460
kevincox wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The machine was rather difficult to operate. For years radios had been operated by means of pressing buttons and turning dials; then as the technology became more sophisticated the controls were made touch-sensitive--you merely had to brush the panels with your fingers; now all you had to do was wave your hand in the general direction of the components and hope. It saved a lot of muscular expenditure, of course, bu…

Can people please stop implementing ideas that were intended as satire?

Or as social criticism! A lot of tech giants seem to be trying to bring about the techno-future of scifi and completely missing the point that a lot of it is a dystopian hellscape serving as a thin veil over commentary on contemporary society.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#498

Post by nabla9 »

nicce wrote: post #83
nabla9 wrote: post #12

Touch screens are cheaper but step backwards in UX and ergonomics. If you need to look at the screen and your finger for basic functions, that's not different from using mobile phone while driving.

> Touch screens are cheaper How I feel like that this price is not considered for the end user, at all…

For cheap cars, of course.

But using touch screens for any mid-level or luxury car is a bad choice from every aspect.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#499

Post by parchley »

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

I took and ID3 for a test drive, an accidentally activated the speed limiter on the highway. That got quite scary, and it took ages to realize I had to swipe on one of the fake buttons to disable it.

Compared to ID4, ID3 has another epic cost saving measure: They removed the two switches for the rear windows from the driver door, and replaced it with a toggle switch that decides whether the switches for the front windows really control the front windows, or the rear ones. So in total they saved one physical switch, but made the user experience much worse.

I also skipped the entire ID-family due to that. At least the Enyaq (Skoda's ID4) has a much better setup with physical buttons on the steering wheel, and more physical buttons for the console.

Re: European crash tester says carmakers must bring back physical controls

#500

Post by btown »

jwr wrote: post #360

I have a VW (ID.4) and they took the touch craziness to another level. There are things that don't look like buttons, but are touch-sensitive, and there are also buttons, that apart from being pressure-sensitive, are also touch sensitive. Like volume buttons on the steering wheel, where if you try to feel for them without looking, you end up accidentally "swiping" and turning your volume up to the max. The whole touc…

An ability to turn volume up to the max, unintentionally, is a safety issue, IMO. And more generally, I wonder how many “took my eye off the road for the radio” accident reports are actually a result of bad physical UX.
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