Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

wired.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 766 posts

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#491

Post by nsfmc »

nonethewiser wrote: post #470
bagels wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

> If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation. Why do you think electricity prices are high?

i'm not sure if you're serious, but the california public utilities commision's public advocates office (what a mouthful) describes california's rates as generally higher than most of the nation[0], with southern california's rates being highest (with both increasing).

you can see, for instance san diego's rates [1] which are $0.38/kWh in the winter and $0.48/kWh in the summer. for context, this means if i pay 11 dollars in electricity generation (because i'm part of a municipal electric generation coop), i'm still paying $36 for distribution/transmission/etc, which is $47 for 106kWh used or ~$.44/kWh which is roughly what electrify america charges ($.48/kWh) when i go to 'fill up my car.' as far as i can tell from talking to people, this is is more than most people anywhere in the country (including hawaii) pay for their electricity.

[0]: https://www.publicadvocates.cpuc.ca.gov/-/media/cal-advocate... [1]: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/files/regulatory/1-1-24%2...

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#492

Post by bagels »

nxm wrote: post #481
bagels wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A combination of: mismanagement and corruption. To pay for all the people that PGE murdered with their negligence? Why do you think electricity prices are high? Why should the rates be 4x the rest of the country?

Because of regulations and higher costs (labor)

Which regulations? Is there much difference in labor cost and regulations between Sacramento, Santa Clara and the areas that PGE covers?

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#493

Post by fragmede »

nsfmc wrote: post #491
nonethewiser wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation. Why do you think electricity prices are high?

i'm not sure if you're serious, but the california public utilities commision's public advocates office (what a mouthful) describes california's rates as generally higher than most of the nation[0], with southern california's rates being highest (with both increasing). you can see, for instance san diego's rates [1] which are $0.38/kWh in the winter and $0.48/kWh in the summer. for context, this means if i pay 11 dol…

fwiw, San Francisco is at $0.51/kWh for peak usage.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#494

Post by bilsbie »

mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

If heat pumps get inefficient at low temps could we not program them to run full blast during the warmest parts of the day and preheat the home. Thus needing to run less at night.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#495

Post by UncleOxidant »

sgerenser wrote: post #361
UncleOxidant wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had exactly the same experience recently. It seems like there are plenty of good mini-split heatpump systems that will work down to 0F (or even lower) without any kind of backup heat source. But if you're replacing a forced air furnace that feeds an existing ducts the only options are heatpumps that need to have backup heat under 30F. So essentially you're buying 2 furnaces in one which increases the cost. I'm in the…

There's plenty of central split heat pumps that can function just fine below 30F. Look for ones marked "hyper heat" or advertised for use in cold climates. As long as the heatpump can handle down to 0F or so, then your backup heat only really needs to be an electric resistance heat strip (inefficient, but very cheap) since it would be used so infrequently. OTOH, if you're replacing a gas furnace and already have A/C,…

> There's plenty of central split heat pumps that can function just fine below 30F.

They likely exist, but none of my local residential HVAC companies carried them.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#496

Post by michaelt »

bagels wrote: post #214
mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

Right, the heat pump will reduce energy use to maybe 1/3 of a gas furnace, but natural gas is something like 6x cheaper for the same amount of energy, so it is an expensive folly. If California is serious about this, they need to reign in the utilities to reduce prices and or stop the attacks on solar installation.

> stop the attacks on solar installation

I don't know if the experience of a Brit with a roof covered in solar panels applies in California, but: during months when you want to run the heat pump, your solar won't be producing shit.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#497

Post by jhallenworld »

mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

It's a big problem for electric cars too... Here are the current prices per kwh for me in MA:

Electricity = $.26 / kwh

Propane (LPG) = .134 / kwh

Heating oil = .095 / kwh

Gasoline = .091 / kwh

Natural Gas = .082 / kwh

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#498

Post by smeej »

bilsbie wrote: post #494
mdasen wrote: post #174

One of the big problems with heat pumps in New England is that our electricity costs 1.7x the US average ( https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... ). If you're in the South, a heat pump makes perfect sense. You're going to want AC anyway and it'll be way more efficient and save a ton of money when you want heat. In most of the country, even if it gets cold your electricity prices are still a t…

If heat pumps get inefficient at low temps could we not program them to run full blast during the warmest parts of the day and preheat the home. Thus needing to run less at night.

Maybe, but unless your house is very well insulated, this would probably require making the home so warm as to be very uncomfortable.

I live in New England in a small house (<700 sqft), and it easily drops 5 degrees an hour when it's 65 inside and 15 outside.

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#499

Post by nsfmc »

fragmede wrote: post #493
nsfmc wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i'm not sure if you're serious, but the california public utilities commision's public advocates office (what a mouthful) describes california's rates as generally higher than most of the nation[0], with southern california's rates being highest (with both increasing). you can see, for instance san diego's rates [1] which are $0.38/kWh in the winter and $0.48/kWh in the summer. for context, this means if i pay 11 dol…

fwiw, San Francisco is at $0.51/kWh for peak usage.

oooooph

Re: Nine US states are teaming up to accelerate the adoption of heat pumps

#500

Post by reducesuffering »

ssuds wrote: post #420
ghufran_syed wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in Northern california, I just got a heat pump installed by these guys: https://www.heliosclimate.io/ - a YC company btw, for those who think they just fund consumer apps :) Overall it was a great experience, there were some minor issues immediately after installation that got dealt with quickly and efficiently. I think the list price was similar to what you were quoted, but in northern california (menlo park, pe…

Shreyas here, one of the co-founders of Helios. So great to have you as a customer! We're stoked we were able to help you ditch natural gas and decrease your carbon footprint. Menlo park (and much of the peninsula) are such a no brainer for heat pumps. Like you mentioned, ~$5500 in incentives plus interest free financing can net to almost no out-of-pocket costs for most homeowners in San Mateo County. Many contractor…

I couldn't find detailed info on what incentives apply to my county, Alameda.

From your site: "In the SF Bay area common incentives are the Federal 25C Tax Credit, Tech Clean CA and Peninsula Clean Energy."

I'm assuming Federal 25C and Tech Clean CA apply but Peninsula does not. But I don't know how much these are without further research. It would be nice if you had a tool on your site to determine my net cost with incentives included.

Post reply on HN