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Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

nytimes.com

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Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#491

Post by t8sr »

yreg wrote: post #333
mindwok wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see so many comments here taking layoffs personally, or talking about how layoffs are stupid. Layoffs are not personal, and the corollary to that is that you should never treat your company as a friend. It's a company trying to maximize value. Also, layoffs do work. Almost every large, successful company has done them at some stage. They are an expected, and necessary, part of operating a company and…

How does it make sense for Google to keep laying off people (many of them skilled overperformers) while continuing to hire? It seems they have alienated a large part of their workforce with these decisions. Plus they are running into legal fights in Europe where it's not so easy to randomly fire employees. I would truly like to understand this, but I haven't heard an explanation of why the actions make sense for the…

The people they are hiring are probably cheaper than the people being laid off. The costs of the layoff are massive in morale, lost know how, missed opportunities, etc. But to the finance people, that's just as well because it's not their problem to deal with.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#492

Post by geodel »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #477
ponector wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a business relationship, but they always trying to convince employees that it is not. That it is a family, a friendship relationship. You should be reliable, you should help everyone in your "family". If you leave your "family" abruptly it is a kind of betrayal. Also funny is brainwashing employees to think that HR is their fried, that HR can help with issues at work. It is a business. Do minimum amount of work…

They're aren't brainwashing you, they are playing to their own benefit. In the same way that you "brainwash" them with a stretch of a resume and overly optimistic self evals. There are people who recognize the game being played, and people who get their souls crushed because they failed to properly recognize how the pieces in the game move.

Absolutely right. I was exactly thinking in same direction as your comment. There is no "they" it is just people. Job seekers, employees, employers all get economical with truth when needed.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#493

Post by [deleted] »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #483
password54321 wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most "leetcode" questions they ask are just easy level programming puzzles. The fact that many developers seem to hate it and even struggle with it says more about the developers applying than it does about Google.

> Most "leetcode" questions they ask are just easy level programming puzzles. As a senior developer currently looking for work, I have mixed feelings about leetcode-like questions. Here's my take: Pro: They rule out most/all applicants who lack basic programming competence. Con: Any timed or live programming test can make some applicants fail because of performance anxiety. Pro/con: Some of the problems require (a) v…

[deleted]

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#494

Post by mithr »

wonderwonder wrote: post #422
sz4kerto wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree and I am sad that we're teaching each other to be skeptical and cynical. The company is not your friend and not your enemy, I agree. However, people _do_ develop personal relationship with each other. Sometimes even across the different levels in the company hierarchy. Yes, as with any other relationship, circumstances and interests might override this, but relationships still do matter. People have emotio…

I don't think this necessarily holds in the world of remote work. At least for me, relationships are very surface level. Almost no friendly banter, limited 2 second "How was your weekend?" before meetings that no one cares about. Its hard to be friends with little black boxes and white text on a screen. This is compounded when 75% of the team is made up of consultants. I do agree though that its pretty awful but the…

I think change in the remote work world is that we can no longer take these casual relationships for granted, or assume that they will just come into being. In this new world, we have to be intentional about building them.

Whereas in an office environment, we'd naturally run into folks at the proverbial water cooler, and slowly develop more of a relationship with some folks — and similarly for camaraderie with the folks sitting around you — that just doesn't exist in remote.

In my experience, it is still possible to build these kinds of relationships, though. But it requires actively building them. It requires intentional effort, which doesn't come naturally to many of us, and especially so since many of us have not been used to having to do that, having come from office settings pretty recently. I was able to build meaningful friendships with remote colleagues, some of which have lasted beyond my time at the company, by intentionally making the time to ask and care about their lives outside of work, by setting up recurring 1:1s to just chat, etc. This can sometimes feel like it's "wasted time" that's taken away from your work, but I believe it's really important in order to feel better about where you're working and who you're working with, feel less like a cog in a machine, and as a result (at least for me) end up doing better work.

I wonder if, as the tech world becomes more accustomed to remote work, we'll eventually get better at this as an industry. My hope is that it'll get easier, or at least more natural as a result.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#495

Post by bmikaili »

kyrra wrote: post #490
ken47 wrote: post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

I joined Google 11 years into my career. So while I had taken an algorithms class recently, I just reread the algorithm book I used in college and spent a bunch of time studying all of them. I actually found it a lot of fun, as it was a good refresher for myself.

It‘s not as easy as it was 11 years ago. There‘s a whole industry behind it and an arms race between preparation and more difficult problems.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#496

Post by ken47 »

password54321 wrote: post #449
ken47 wrote: post #347

Google is overrated. It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. You had talking heads yammering about how hard it was to get into Google, which to be honest, made the company even less appealing. Is this a software engineering company or some kind of hyped up nightclub? Yeah, maybe it's a hard interview if you'v…

Most "leetcode" questions they ask are just easy level programming puzzles. The fact that many developers seem to hate it and even struggle with it says more about the developers applying than it does about Google.

Your assertion is that Google asks “just easy level programming problems.” Assuming we accept this argument, that probably tells most of us more about Google than it does about some straw-man developer.

But I’ll give Google a bit more credit than you and guess that they ask questions that are at least above the “easy” level.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#497

Post by htrp »

xtracto wrote: post #455
hiq wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's been obvious for over a decade after they built an interview process that is heavily biased towards those who recently took an algorithms class. What would you do instead? Threads about tech interviews are always the same: we all complain about the process with no real alternative when you want to hire at that scale. In particular about: > Just about every other skill that is needed to be a good software engin…

I've been interviewing people for Software Eng jobs for more than 10 years an I haven't used leetcode style problems for like 8 of those years. Leetcode interviewing is lazy interviewing. It's for when you don't want to put an effort in your interviewing process to check if the candidates have the skills you need for the position you are filling. For example. My interview process nowadays is one web API interaction c…

stealing your interview method, this is an amazing idea.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#498

Post by ilc »

There's an old Bob Seger song I quote about work:

"I used her, she used me and neither one cared. We were getting our share." - Night Moves / Seger.

In a sense, that's how I view work. I'm there to get a check, they are there to use my labor and make money. As long as we're both happy. It is all good. But... never forget we are using each other.

"Ain't it funny how the night moves

When you just don't seem to have as much to lose

Strange how the night moves"

Ain't it?

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#499

Post by game_the0ry »

otikik wrote: post #108
nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

I see what you are saying. I am an engineer-turned-EM and you don't know me, so please take everything I say with a grain of salt: > Your job is NOT safe. Nothing will make execs happier than having this line of thought popularized amongst engineers. It will allow them to hire cheaper, and exploit existing engineers more. I think a better way to put it is: "A job is not your family, and a job is not your identity. Yo…

I hear you. I am also an engineer-turned-EM.

> Your job is NOT safe.

Nothing would make me happier than to eradicate this line of thought, but laying the responsibility of that on the employee is poor management at best, malicious bullshit at worst.

We EMs do nothing to re-assure our employees that they are valued co-workers and not "resources" to be managed.

When one of my valued employees comes to me and says "I got another job offer and the increase in TC will change my life," most of the time they are a top-performer I want to keep, so I go to my manager asking to match their comp. But...they have to ask their manager, then their manager, so on and so forth. Even HR sometimes steps in with excuses why we cant. By the time a decision is made, if one is ever made, the employee I wanted to keep is already at their new employer.

So I would recommend my employees look out for themselves, bc I (and my management hierarchy) certainly won't (though they can, they just don't want to).

And if you are still looking to lay responsibility on to someone, look in the mirror.

Re: Google Cuts Jobs in Engineering and Other Divisions

#500

Post by _uhtu »

nly wrote: post #35

My firm made billions last year too and just laid off hundreds of engineers (a decent %) Some of the best engineers, those that I respected the most, went. People who make no sense. After last year's layoffs they told us they were "done" and it was "all behind us". Last year then turned out to a better year financially than 2022 (we have access to the top line numbers) You can't trust anything anyone above you in the…

There are a lot of hackernewsers frothing at the mouth for layoffs, so excited that all the engineers they don't think are good are gonna get laid off. This right here is the thing they don't understand: companies are typically incompetent when it comes to performance measurement and there's a good chance they'll lay off good people and leave the suck ups who don't do anything. After all, if you're so confident that you're company has been incompetent enough to make a bunch of bad hires and keep them to this point, why would you be confident they'd suddenly get it right this time?
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