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Cybertruck Launch

tesla.com

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Re: Cybertruck Launch

#491

Post by adfm »

nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

Weight ratio is definitely an issue, but what I want to know is what it will carry. They call it a truck, but is it? Practical truck buyers will want to know upfront if it will carry a full sheet of plywood and how convenient it is to load and unload. If it doesn’t improve upon the current experience, its just an expensive status symbol.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#492

Post by Ancapistani »

freedrock87 wrote: post #417
Ancapistani wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be true only if the use cases were the same. The US is very different in terms of both geography and infrastructure than most of the developed world.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

How many European farmers are pulling a trailer 150 miles each way to pick up a load of hay? That's a relatively regular occurrence for my family. That sort of thing isn't at all uncommon in the US.

Streets are narrower in many parts of Europe as well, which means a larger truck isn't practical as a sole vehicle.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#493

Post by ChainOfFools »

kylehotchkiss wrote: post #439

I saw one at the mall last week. Much bigger than I expected. Like bigger than a Tundra. I don’t get it. You can’t fit much in the back. A lot of people like how traditional trucks look and this is a big departure. I hope insurance companies jack up their rates for these things, it’s going to destroy everything it contacts.

I just saw one on the road yesterday here in Chino Hills California, and I was astonished at how incredibly worse the thing it looks in person than in the promo photos. I was pretty ambivalent about this truck before seeing one in person, now it's hard to imagine how anyone thought this was going to turn out well.

The back tailgate is just an enormous grey not-quite-flat slab that looks exactly like a commercial kitchen dishwasher door that someone clicked on in a CAD program and stretched to truck size.

And the stainless steel panels overall, despite being nearly brand new already looked like they had a bunch of fingerprint streaks or some sort of surface discoloration in a number of places, that really detracted from what was, I expect, an intended effect of clean severity. All the proportions read as very ungainly with the weight gathered in awkward visual masses, at least when seen up close from eye level. The panels already displayed just the slightest bit of imperfect matching between adjacent coplanar surfaces. I can't imagine how rough the thing is going to look in two or three years.

I would take a rivian over two of these things any day of the week, even if it does look like Bomberman.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#494

Post by Kirby64 »

nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it. You get to use gasoline one time.

The absolute best efficiency of a gasoline engine is somewhere around 40% efficiency, with most being a lot lower. So your 48MJ number is a lot closer to ~19MJ. So, assuming you can recharge a lithium battery 100 times (most are going to be capable of many times that), you're break even in terms of 'efficiency' of Li-Ion vs. gas.

Even adding in all the additional costs of product, transport, energy generation costs, etc etc, lithium-ion batteries are still better.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#495

Post by yogurtboy »

MagicMoonlight wrote: post #141
owenpalmer wrote: post #113

This is what we call vehicle weight inflation. As cars get heavier and heavier, the roads get increasingly more dangerous for smaller cars, which causes everyone to get bigger cars. And the loop continues.

Everyone gets bigger cars because bigger cars have more room inside so they're really comfortable and practical. Teslas are heavier because they have to use batteries and batteries are incredibly inefficient compared to petrol. This is the consequence of you asking them to get rid of combustion.

If you've ever been in the cab of a recent F-150, you'd know that they don't have more interior space than a VW Golf. More practical, sure, but only if the one time per year you haul your boat out to a desert reservoir is worth the countless attempts at parking.

Secondly, battery + motor is actually more efficient than ICE. You might be thinking of power density, which is significantly lower on an EV.

Thirdly, I don't love the pro-car company attitude: people don't have to compromise on low emissions vs. safety vs. practicality. Car companies have forced the choice upon us from a century and billions of dollars of marketing and lobbying.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#497

Post by thebruce87m »

ecshafer wrote: post #490
nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

And then burning coal to charge the batteries.... But these cars are electric!

No coal on my grid (well a tiny amount sometimes but it is being phased out)

https://electricityproduction.uk/in/scotland/

Another thing I’d like to add is that even burning coal it will still break even and deliver less emissions over the lifetime of the vehicle:

> If they drive in Poland, where 90% of the electricity comes from burning coal, then yes, it will take 100,000 kilometers or more to reach parity with a conventional gasoline-powered car.

https://cleantechnica.com/2022/01/21/unpacking-the-electric-...

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#499

Post by alpaca128 »

mavhc wrote: post #399
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not for long, anyway.

https://twitter.com/DavidKasmanArt/status/172922332301007291...

I don't know what you want to tell with this, but in that picture every surface I can see looks almost perfectly flat. For the purposes of aerodynamics a curvature you have to measure with a tool is likely not going to help much.

Edit: In case this is a thread you might want to link the exact post/picture we're supposed to see because threads aren't accessible without login.

Re: Cybertruck Launch

#500

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

Kirby64 wrote: post #494
nojvek wrote: post #479

1kg of petrol/gasoline is ~48MJ. 1kg of Lithim-ion battery is ~0.25MJ/kg. Gasoline is ~192X energy dense compared to Lithium-ion batteries. Li-on is the most popular battery due to its cost and weight. In terms of weight: Tesla model Y = ~4,500 lbs. F-150 lightning = ~6,500 lbs. Rivian R1T = ~7,000 lbs. Hummer EV = ~9,000 lbs. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Cybertruck = ~5,400 lbs A human roughly weighs 160lbs (~72kg). Buying electric tr…

Except... you can recharge a lithium-ion battery many, many times before you have to replace it. You get to use gasoline one time. The absolute best efficiency of a gasoline engine is somewhere around 40% efficiency, with most being a lot lower. So your 48MJ number is a lot closer to ~19MJ. So, assuming you can recharge a lithium battery 100 times (most are going to be capable of many times that), you're break even i…

In your metaphor the battery would be akin to the gas tank though, rather than the gasoline that fills the tank. I think my gas tank can be emptied and filled more times than a battery and it doesn't lose capacity the more it's used or when it's cold out!
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