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LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

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491–500 of 754 posts

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#491
post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Negative experimental results are valid science (provided the experiment was run in a way that negative experimental results truly mean a high confidence that you demonstrated something isn't possible, which is actually quite challenging). I focus my criticism around science because I am an ex-scientist and my training had a fair amount of attention paid to not wasting your own time, or others time, with things that…

> scientists have finite time, it's valuable, and are just as prone to chasing the new hotness as programmers. Yes, I agree. Scientist time is valuable for at least a couple reasons; science funding is a scarce resource, and trained scientists are scarce. I'd argue that those are related, and both could be helped by increasing interest/excitement/awareness toward science in the general public. If we were to sort peop…

I have a different perspective on your statement "trained scientists are scarce .... both could be helped by increasing interest/excitement/awareness"...

When I was a kid I read about DNA and genetic modification of organisms (this was back in the 80's when it was still fairly new) and decided to become a scientist to genetically modify humans using gene therapy as an alternative to standard pharmaceuticals. The articles I read suggested that if we just sequenced the human genome, and did a bit more research and applied computing, that gene therapy would be a viable solution. Biotech was undergoing a revolution at the time.

Fast forward- I've finished grad school, postdoc, and am now a principal investigator at a national lab. I was a beneficiary of a massive growth in science funding during the Clinton era that ended right about the time I was looking for a faculty position. There are almost no faculty positions available, compared to the supply. Guess what? Real science doesn't look anything like what I thought. The majority of the time is spent writing grants and papers, your competitors are super-hardcore, it's really not a fun job and it gets in the way of work-life balance.

And the entire area I wanted to work in, gene therapy, was almost entirely stopped for 20+ years due to the death of a single patient in a single trial (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Gelsinger). The risks of gene therapy had been greatly understated, and even today, the few gene therapies that do exist aren't great, and cost $$$. We hear constantly that human genome sequencing is going to revolutionize drug discovery- it didn't.

So, I am not so sure that breathless articles about technologies that could reasonably have been anticipated not to work (like LK-99) to excite more people to sign up for science is really a good idea.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#492
post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The excitable people are certainly “loud” though. The last few weeks with the LK-99 hype combined with the usual ChatGPT stories, I actually started feeling that maybe the site should be renamed Hype News. > but that it's odd when there's people who treat an optimistic outlook as an error. IMHO it’s best to treat any extraordinary claim as BS until proven otherwise as it’s very easy to concoct BS claims. If we take e…

I am perfectly capable of managing, simply unknowns, it doesn’t have to have an actual boolean value. Treating it as bullshit is not the correct approach - sure, there is a healthy amount of skepticism, realism to have, but while RTSC is a too nice to be true goal, it is not fundamentally against any known laws, I would retain my bullshit behavior to faster than light travel, the daily tesla-free-energy-for-the-world…

It's not about managing unknowns. It's about low information speculation taking up all the information bandwidth crowding out high information factual stuff.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#494
post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Room temp Superconductors, along with fusion, would affect the economy profoundly. What the exact effect on rent would be is hard to predict but under the "post-scarcity society" mental construct, having infinite energy at zero cost (amortized) would presumably make the price of housing change.

Room temperature superconductors would not give us zero-cost energy any time soon. Even if one had a high enough critical current to be used in transmission lines (which is not a given), transmission losses are under 10% in modern grids.

> transmission losses are under 10% in modern grids

Modern grids are designed to keep those losses down.

If the losses weren't a factor the grids would be designed differently. Very differently. As in, North Africa would be so full of solar panels the generating fields would be visible from space.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can you make wires from cermets? Thats the point. we need a substance that is malleable(?) enough like copper wire that electrons can pass through. Pottery ceramic wont work like that.

> can you make wires from cermets? Well, nobody mentioned cermets, or wires, and there are plenty of applications for superconductors beyond wires. Even so, we are perfectly able to make fibre optics cables with silica, which is a ceramic. > we need a substance that is malleable(?) enough like copper wire that electrons can pass through. Malleability (actually, ductility) has nothing to do with electric conductivity.…

I think this misconception stems from people thinking 'earthenware' or 'clay' when they hear 'ceramics'.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#496
post #451

Sixty Symbols released a video about this yesterday, and in it professor Philip Moriarty is less than impressed with the whole ordeal. I haven't been paying attention, I'm too jaded and skeptical and assumed from the start that there was something wrong and much hype about nothing. Bad Science and Room Temperature Superconductors - Sixty Symbols: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zl-AgmoZ5mo

Loved the video. Also very annoyed with the general reception seen on HN like “well it was fun”. Unreal the authors had the audacity to add that last line proclaiming a new age for humankind. Even more unreal that news everywhere fell for it.

What I care about more than "fell for it" is the general lack of patience and skepticism from us, the audience and the commenters. As commenters, we are part of the media (i.e. social media). Usually, anything claiming itself a revolutionary discovery, especially in physics, has a strong undertone of crankery. For it to be included, even in a preprint, is a bit preposterous.

It's not wrong to be excited, but there is a sort of fatigue which builds up, like the boy who cried wolf.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#497

It was interesting seeing real peer reviewed science from accredited labs like LLNL and Fermi get brushed aside and almost dismissed while people were cheering on this LK-99 thing. Not sure what to make of that but that's what I'll remember most about this debacle.

Its kind of like a "nice/fun" flip-side of the anti-science internet experts we saw during covid, although I think the people at the forefront this time were genuinely pro-science and positively motivated.

That's an interesting take. Crackpots and overhyped layman being a dual of anti-science. What would we call that? Well, I guess we'd normally talk about that stuff as science fiction.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#498
post #14

In their preprint, the Korean authors note one particular temperature at which LK-99’s showed a tenfold drop in resistivity, from about 0.02 ohms per centimetre to 0.002 ohms per cm. “They were very precise about it. 104.8ºC,” says Prashant Jain, a chemist at the University of Illinois Urbana–Champaign. “I was like, wait a minute, I know this temperature.” The reaction that synthesizes LK-99 uses an unbalanced recipe…

> Jain, a copper-sulfide expert I would have never known that people are actual experts in one material. This is impressive.

He's probably a *-sulfide or copper-* expert. Or maybe just a physical chemist that the press is ginning up. Actually, the latter. His page doesn't even mention copper or sulfide; and makes only one mention of conductors.

https://chemistry.illinois.edu/jain

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#499
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Try challenging climate science, even in a valid way, and see how popular it is on reddit or HN or twitter. Even my above comment now has a negative score which sort of proves my point. note: i don't deny climate science but like any science there are ways to challenge it

Again, this sounds an awful lot like the creationist rhetoric a few decades ago. > "Try challenging evolutionary biology, even in a valid way, and see how popular it is". All crackpots think they're under siege and that their ideas are unfairly dismissed. Their ideas are "valid" (because they say so), so why are those ideas being dismissed without due consideration? You hear the same rhetoric from anti-vaxxers, creat…

Calling groups “crazy” to dismiss their arguments is a classic ad hominem.

Re: LK-99 isn’t a superconductor

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone in this thread should watch this, instead of "the excitement was good for everyone" they might realize these hoaxes harm scientific integrity. The audacity of HN to state something is good, without listening to scientists give their take on it.

But there's nothing meaningful in the video. He just keeps reiterating how he thinks you should feel about the situation. He clearly doesn't think it's worth his time to understand anything about LK-99, its history, or its popularity. It seems like most anybody that watched the fireworks show is more informed than he is. So what's the video about? The same way he says "this isn't how science is done", you could say a…

Yeah. I would argue that he displayed some bad science of his own. He kept harping on about how the LK-99 paper didn't show resistivity going down to exactly zero, but had a residual resistivity. But that is exactly what you would have seen with a mixed phase sample with some superconductor and some normal material. It took proper scientific detective work to distinguish the possibilities, not this kind of silly snark.
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