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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

techspot.com

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#491

Post by kaba0 »

chongli wrote: post #56
unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

I want replaceable batteries in that I want to replace them like 2-3 years after purchase. Which is already possible for a negligible price.

You really shouldn’t want to replace batteries on the fly in general — it makes stealing easier (modern phones can’t be powered off easily without authorization) so you may find it before it loses power, waterproofing suffers, etc.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#492

Post by yc-kraln »

deelowe wrote: post #120
surgical_fire wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

The firmware source needs to be put into escrow for any device with more than N sales; where N is 10k or 50k or 100k.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#493

Post by kaba0 »

JohnFen wrote: post #229
phan wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be joking if you think its just a BOM adjustment and a small cost... way to oversimplify the actual implementation

All I'm saying is that you used to be able to get smartphones that were like this, and they weren't any more expensive than any other smartphones. (EDIT: I was wrong, they were about $25 more expensive.) So this is demonstrably possible. The only reason I can think of that it's not done anymore is cost savings.

Modern phones are packed to the brim with features. My phone has a goddamn LIDAR scanner! I really don’t think it is feasible anymore, and I think most people would prefer an extra 2-300 mAh over swappable battery. Of course replacing it once by a dedicated shop each 3 years should be possible.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#494

Post by kaba0 »

crabbone wrote: post #386
chongli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

What a bunch of crock. I have this new Nokia phone with a replaceable battery. It came with the pin you can use to open it (probably costs a few cents to manufacture, but if I had plenty of time to spare, I could've made one with a sturdy piece of plastic and sandpaper). The "mechanism" that keeps the back panel is just a piece of rubber, probably the same kind you find on hermetically sealing food containers. Also,…

It’s literally the most commonly used tool, hell, I have my phone on me more times than even my shoes! Of course I want it to be waterproof, people get their phones wet from any number of things, sudden rain, kid hosing you, phone falling into the sink, etc.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#495

Post by Lacerda69 »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

A million times yes. My phone practically became useless overnight since banking apps refuse to open on my Android version. No option to update to a newer version, no option to access important accounts without some phone app.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#496

Post by evilos »

scarface_74 wrote: post #483
evilos wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes but USB C has solved that problem.

Which modern phone has a removable battery and is water resistant? The vaunted Samsung s5, you still had to make sure that the battery was very secure and just right. > https://www.gottabemobile.com/samsung-galaxy-s5-water-test-d... > If you remove the battery, the Galaxy S5 will remind you to make sure the back cover is back in place securely.

Apparently the brand new iphone 14! https://www.ifixit.com/News/64865/iphone-14-teardown

The new law apparently doesn't require a user to be able to replace the battery by hand. Just that it is serviceable.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#497

Post by kaba0 »

munk-a wrote: post #188
xenadu02 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make this claim but have you ever worked in product design for something trying to achieve an IP water and dust ingress rating? It is far more than "just a gasket and a few screws". The rating can't just be good on unboxing day. You want it to hold even after a few years, several drops on the floor, in cold weather, etc.

Watch makers solved this problem decades ago - there are very reasonable mechanical solutions to waterproofing. And if some limited components need to be sealed (i.e. the USB port requires special shielding) that sealing can easily exist in a device that is otherwise reasonable to maintain. Watch maintenance has been done by skilled professionals using generic tools and (generally) generic components. Waterproofing i…

I can also make a tiny little thingy waterproof, but it’s much harder to do with a mini-computer that is insanely powerful, has a whole camera department, can be used as a semi-professional video recorder, can withstand drops, and has a 1+ days battery life at least.

Also, it is just ingenious to attribute everything to malice — is a modern combustion engine also irreparable because of some conteo, or is it irreparable simply because for efficiency reasons they had to use more precise technology with smaller error margins, where one’s fatty human hand just doesn’t cut anymore?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#498

Post by yakireev »

JohnFen wrote: post #182
chongli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

> This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries! Except it doesn't. The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack. What it does is add a few dollars onto the BOM.

> The last two waterproof phones I had had user-replaceable batteries, a USB port, and even a headphone jack.

Asking unironically: what were they? I want such a phone

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#499

Post by kaba0 »

evilos wrote: post #393
kgantchev wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure many people want a repairable smartphone and a replaceable battery. Of course, there are many that don't. I don't understand how it make sense to force those people, that don't want a repairable phone and a replaceable battery, to get such a smartphone.

Because the cost of the waste these throw-away phones generate isn't priced in. There is a societal cost that isn't being paid by the firm or the consumer. Honestly, it probably only adds a few bucks to the BOM and the consumer who doesn't care about repairability still likely comes out better off in the long run because their phone lasts them longer and/or resells for more because it isn't junk after 3 years.

Iphones are arguably not too repairable, yet they absolutely dominate the whole market in their lifetimes - often having 2-3 owners.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#500

Post by littlestymaar »

jenadine wrote: post #428
jacknews wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, the subheading 'Sleek slabs could soon be a thing of the past' is bogus. This is not a requirement to have 'cartridge' user-replaceable batteries, just that you should be able to open the phone and remove the battery (not much emphasis on actually replacing it) with easily available tools, rather than heatguns, solvents, proprietary glass-pullers etc.

Are heatguns and solvents not "commercially available tools"?

See the “and” in the original text (emphasis mine)

> with the use of commercially available tools and without requiring the use of specialised tools […], or proprietary tools, thermal energy or solvents to disassemble it.

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