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TikTok is now banned in Montana

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Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#491

Post by yunwal »

asynchronous wrote: post #469
pjc50 wrote: post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This stuff has been talked about often enough that it should be well-documented, but can we have a detailed rundown on the stuff that TikTok does that isn't done by other apps ?

I think the issue is: 1. The sheer amount of people it affects 2. The fact that the power resides with the CCP. Not like I trust any countries’ government but the CCP clearly has goals counter to the West’s

But both have goals that are counter to my own, so I'd probably rather give neither the edge.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#492

Post by yunwal »

falcolas wrote: post #251
wombatpm wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So can apple turn off all iphones in Montana in retaliation. Bet it would be easier/cheaper to cut off those customers than implement any changes. Android phone makes could follow suit

It'd be hard to identify a phone associated with a "Montana citizen". Not impossible, but I think that based on Apple and Google's comments on these laws that they haven't built the functionality in. GeoIP doesn't work because carriers (especially in Montana) tend to assign IPs from surrounding states as much as they do local cities. When I'm on the cell network, I'm regularly identified as coming out of Denver. Phon…

Most smartphones, including iPhones, have the ability to be locked but still allow calls to emergency contacts and services.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#493

Post by micromacrofoot »

99_00 wrote: post #329
micromacrofoot wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

different varieties/severity, neither good - arguably Musk is more directly harmful to Americans than Uyghur genocide, (which most Americans probably aren't even aware of) but it's not really an intelligent comparison and probably results in more distracting infighting than anything

My argument isn't that the Uyghur genocide is harmful to Americans. My argument is that the regime that is carrying out the genocide is in control of the algorithms for a major social media company. You perfectly prove my point when you have no problem realizing the impact on Americans control of a social media has in the case of Twitter, but are completely blind to the impact of TikTok.

I think you're reading a lot into very few words and I probably mostly agree with you. Both TikTok and Twitter have impacts, and neither have much to do with Uyghur genocide — that's a straw man.

Americans aren't oblivious to the genocide of the Uyghurs due to TikTok, they were oblivious before too. On the whole there's no impact on our daily lives from their plight, and as long as that's true it's going to continue having no bearing.

YouTube has radicalized people to jihadi terrorism and white supremacy, Facebook has promoted Rohingya genocide, Instagram is seemingly having a negative impact on depression and suicide amongst teenage girls... these are all problematic platforms regardless of regime... and that's before you get into more of the state-sponsored nonsense that the CIA and other do to spy on everyone regardless of which country they reside in.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#494

Post by MichaelZuo »

anonymouskimmer wrote: post #486
MichaelZuo wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They almost certainly don't want to set the precedent of caving in to a sub-national jurisdiction's bills when they don't even have any business operations in that jurisdiction. Because then every state, province territory, etc., in the world will have an excuse. Since there are App Store users everywhere.

This is what lawsuits are for, not preemptive refusal to do business with an entire state. It's a lot cheaper to code geographic controls (that they already have for national-level jurisdictions) than to only temporarily boycott even only 100k paying App store customers.

It's not possible to code sub-national geographic controls without sacrificing markets much bigger then Montana.

There's a reason why no company has ever successfully done such a thing for any consumer product.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#495

Post by antifa »

proxiful-wash wrote: post #53
tiedieconderoga wrote: post #29

>The law specifies that no penalties apply to users of TikTok. But app store operators and TikTok itself could face fines of $10,000 per violation per day, with an individual violation defined as “each time that a user accesses TikTok, is offered the ability to access TikTok, or is offered the ability to download TikTok.” Sounds like a money-printing machine.

[flagged]

> It sounds like people are standing up to psychological manipulation

99% of the sound is clearly people standing up to defend Facebook's interests against China.

Nothing about psychological manipulation here.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#496

Post by anonymouskimmer »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #494
anonymouskimmer wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what lawsuits are for, not preemptive refusal to do business with an entire state. It's a lot cheaper to code geographic controls (that they already have for national-level jurisdictions) than to only temporarily boycott even only 100k paying App store customers.

It's not possible to code sub-national geographic controls without sacrificing markets much bigger then Montana. There's a reason why no company has ever successfully done such a thing for any consumer product.

As long as they do the best they can to comply with the law they would likely be protected from judgement. Courts do not require unreasonable standards of compliance.

If phone users turn off their GPS location feature Apple can't be held accountable.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#497

Post by pastacacioepepe »

kranke155 wrote: post #466
sumedh wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the definition of evil when it comes to TikToK?

Massive data collection being funnelled directly to the benefit of an adversarial totalitarian state. Often coordinating to target intelligence and political targets. It’s a technological wing for a totalitarian intelligence department. That’s what it is. It also has social media functions, but it also has an intelligence function. If you think “well the US does it too” well I invite you to move to Shanghai and live…

> move to Shanghai and live the rest of your days there and tell me you feel just as free as in New York City.

In what ways would your freedom be impacted in Shangai vs NYC?

Because I know or a fact I'd able to live a normal life in Shangai. Work, grow kids, go out and enjoy entertainment, have good healthcare and so on.

Is it the ability to vote your president that makes or break "freedom" for you? Well apparently ~40% of USAmericans have given that up as the average voter turnout in the US is ~60%. The vote you are offered in the US is a Hobson's choice, it's a choice between bad and worse.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#498

Post by mrguyorama »

tibbydudeza wrote: post #387
egorfine wrote: post #379

I live in a country where such a ban on certain "enemy" social networks was implemented a few years ago. What will happen is this. Teens will download a shit ton of VPN applications, the vast majority of which are specifically produced and marketed by the enemy to circumvent said ban. Then all users' phone traffic gets routed via the enemy VPN instead of just the social app's requests. Win-win for both sides: - the g…

Or vendors that currently sell cases and repair screens will then offer a service to sideload such apps for teens and install who knows what other stuff on phones for a fee from a customer and malware vendors. The Prohibition did now work back then and only made the Mafia rich and made them push drugs when it was lifted.

Except prohibition did exactly what it was designed to do. At the start of prohibition, alcohol consumption dropped to 30% of what it was before, and even after people figured out the loopholes and tried working around it, alcohol consumption peaked at like 65% of previous consumption, which was massive.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#499

Post by williamcotton »

egorfine wrote: post #379

I live in a country where such a ban on certain "enemy" social networks was implemented a few years ago. What will happen is this. Teens will download a shit ton of VPN applications, the vast majority of which are specifically produced and marketed by the enemy to circumvent said ban. Then all users' phone traffic gets routed via the enemy VPN instead of just the social app's requests. Win-win for both sides: - the g…

My wife is an 8th grade social studies teacher at a public school in Texas. I spent yesterday in her classroom as the resident technology expert and answered questions about semiconductor manufacturing, neural networks and cryptocurrencies in discussions about trade-offs with technology.

For one, the kids don’t really use TikTok that much and use a handful of apps. Different cliques used different apps more than others. They understood the geopolitical issues with TikTok and very few cared enough about TikTok in particular. They would all just use Reels or some other app more often.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#500

Post by schwartzworld »

OkayPhysicist wrote: post #324
screye wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> side-loading of apps on Android 90%+ users are never going to use apks. If this ban kills the network effect (the R0 of the viral infection), then the last 10% aren't going to last long either.

That's true, but TikTok's primary demographic (teenagers) contains a disproportionate part of the population willing to go to remarkable inconveniences to subvert authority. Alcohol and vapes take substantially more effort for your average high schooler to get their hands on than downloading an APK and pressing "install", yet there's no shortage of drinking and vaping happening. As long as the overall platform is pop…

> Alcohol and vapes take substantially more effort for your average high schooler to get their hands on

You can order a nicotine vape online in most states and the only required ID is "confirming" that you are over 18. Doesn't detract from your main point.

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