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Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

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Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#491

Post by mikysco »

dmode wrote: post #323

Am I the only one who does NOT feel unsafe in SF at all ? I mean, I choose not to walk in TL and SOMA at night. But why would anyone feel unsafe in North Beach, Marina, Russian Hill, Richmond, Sunset, GG park, Lower Haight, Valencia etc. I have spent many nights walking in Valencia and took Uber home at 2am. Doesn't feel remotely unsafe.

I grew up in "safe suburbs" and moved here 5 years ago. Saw a lot of sad changes with COVID... but in terms of safety, I'm 100% with you. On rare occasion, I'll cross a street if an individual is behaving particularly weirdly but I've never witnessed/experienced a "random act of violence". Broadly speaking, SF is safe from violent crime unless you're looking for trouble.

I'm sure parents with young children or elderly have a different experience but that's not different for any other larger US city.

With this said, the topic of the city turning a blind eye to property crime and "extreme", visible destitution is a whole different story.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#492

Post by wpietri »

JPKab wrote: post #460
jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

"Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go" 1.) I grew up in the rural South, and was literally harassed for most of my career for saying "y'all" and "folks" but glad to see it's trendy to speak that way amongst the exact kind of people who used to assume I was ignorant for speaking that way. 2.) Your statement could just as easily be, on a different day: "Y'all abandoned…

> Between "white flight" and "colonizer/gentrifier", you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

So you think that "flee the black people" and "drive the black people out" are the only two options here? There are more things, Horatio.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#493

Post by [deleted] »

jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

[deleted]

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#494

Post by tsgagnon »

asynchronous wrote: post #211
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. I remember reading blog after blog on HN about people moving out of SF specifically for what the city had become.

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug.

Always important to reflect on whether stances like "SF is degenerating" are based on a rational analysis of what is actually happening, versus a more emotional response to stories that might be more like the topic of this post, just with less visibility into the exact circumstances of what happened.

Not saying that's likely happening here, but the clear response to the original news was that this was the perfect example of what SF is becoming. How often does that assumption happen?

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#495

Post by pnathan »

JPKab wrote: post #460
jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

"Y'all colonized the poorest parts of the city and gave the poorest folks nowhere to go" 1.) I grew up in the rural South, and was literally harassed for most of my career for saying "y'all" and "folks" but glad to see it's trendy to speak that way amongst the exact kind of people who used to assume I was ignorant for speaking that way. 2.) Your statement could just as easily be, on a different day: "Y'all abandoned…

One major aspect I want to touch on that bother me in the perspective you criticize.

Poverty and crime are not married.

My wife and I both grew up poor and working class. Living in trailers are in our life stories. You can be dog poor and still not be a junkie, still not mug others, still not assault people. This was understood widely in our upbringing and those we dealt with. People _did_ misbehave, but it was not "just what happens".

Presumption that poor areas must mean getting to deal with junkies, means dealing with violence, well, that is a morally bankrupt view. People don't have to do that. That is their choice. Improvement is possible.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#496

Post by dang »

bigtex88 wrote: post #236
cemerick wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's great; in general, people should be, and I'm not looking down on them for doing so. However, property crime is absolutely irrelevant when presented with the news of someone's murder, yet so many people here are quick to conflate them as somehow equivalent vis a vis personal safety, etc. (Sidenote: I personally don't understand anyone thinking that property crime is "scary". Your car is not your kid. Your walle…

[flagged]

You've unfortunately been crossing into personal attack and name-calling repeatedly in your HN posts, as well as breaking the site guidelines in other ways. We ban accounts that do this kind of thing, so could you please stop?

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#497

Post by silisili »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #222

[flagged]

I made that assumption, but kept my mouth shut, because it wasn't proven. And until there's released video evidence, an admission, or a guilty verdict, I'll do the same here. I think the initial people were too quick to blame druggies, and I think we'll just as well have people too quick to blame the people who blamed the druggies.

Let justice run its course, as they say.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#498

Post by nicenewtemp84 »

jzellis wrote: post #187

When I moved to SF in 1996, the murder count that year was 86. Last year it was 56. I haven't been back in a very long time, but I guarantee you it's a far safer city than it was back then. I lived on Market between 6th and 7th and had knives pulled on me, and watched a car get blown up across the street underneath Hollywood Billiards, which is long gone now - according to Google Maps, they're building new apartments…

There is a difference in who is getting attacked these days vs past. In the past, the crime was more amongst the people taking part in obviously dangerous things.

Now it feels more like it can happen to anyone. I spent a few years in SF as a child 89-92. Have visited several times a year, every year, since 1992. It's definitely the most run down, dirty, and unpleasant it has ever been IMO. I have luckily never had anything stolen, but I for sure see more broken glass and more broken car windows too.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#499

Post by kevstev »

y-curious wrote: post #312
reddog wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> including current faves Austin and Miami Austin has 2.57 murders and nonnegligent manslaughters per 100K. Same year, SF has 6.35 per 100K. So SF is twice as bad as Austin. Your right about Miami though. But 6.35 isn't bad. The murder rate in St Louis (for comparision to the US city with the worst) is 66.07 per 100K. And Colima Mexico (worst in the world maybe) is 182 murders per 100K. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Ok but I wish we could have a database where we DON'T count gangbangers killing other gangbangers. Would probably be much closer.

From what I understand, rural rates of violence are much higher than cities per capita: https://www.americanprogress.org/article/gun-violence-in-rur...

The list of counties with the highest rates of violence listed on that article are all southern and rural and not known to be associated with gang activity that I am aware of.

Re: Arrest made in SF killing of Bob Lee – alleged killer also worked in tech

#500

Post by lern_too_spel »

asynchronous wrote: post #211
mztwo wrote: post #22

As the news media and twitterverse peddled the whole "crime-ridden SF" angle, I felt myself getting drawn into the same topic and agreeing with numerous friends on how much the city has declined. This is a good reminder of how we gravitate towards powerful emotional narratives, which in the moment can feel absolutely true despite an utter lack of supporting facts on an individual murder case. I hope this brings some…

I don’t understand why it can’t be both: SF is degenerating when it comes to random crime AND this murder wasn’t by some random thug. I remember reading blog after blog on HN about people moving out of SF specifically for what the city had become.

It is both, but these are unrelated facts.
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