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IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

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Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#491

Post by edgyquant »

uoaei wrote: post #437
edgyquant wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No he’s right and this is brought up here all the time. There are large swathes of America where people don’t have neighbors for miles (sometimes tens of miles) while there are comparatively few places in Europe that meet this definition.

Again, review the definition of "rural". Just pretending words mean what you want them to mean is quite literally, definitionally, bullshitting.

He said “rural by American standards” not just rural. No one is pretending the word rural means that, that’s why additional context was added to the initial comment.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#492

Post by edgyquant »

uoaei wrote: post #452
Armisael16 wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, precisely like that.

Again, useless fluff. It is more enjoyable for everyone involved when you produce signal and not noise. Comments which can be adequately summarized as "nuh uh" are noise. There is no information whatsoever being communicated with such low-effort posts.

The same can be said of your posts. I pushed back against someone, so buzz off. You aren’t the arbiter of usefulness just as Europeans aren’t the arbiter of what other countries should be doing economically or politically.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#493

Post by edgyquant »

IntelMiner wrote: post #439
edgyquant wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re completely disregarding that they’re talking about the US being the armed forces of all western democracies and strawmanning about 19th-early 20th century imperialism (which Western Europe took part in far more than the US did.)

I did not realize that the Iraq War was "19th-early 20th century imperialism" Nor the mid 1970's

This is a further straw man when the point is that American economics and politics is what allows for the military that protects western democracies around the globe. Address the point don’t change the subject.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#494

Post by edgyquant »

skinnymuch wrote: post #462
edgyquant wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re completely disregarding that they’re talking about the US being the armed forces of all western democracies and strawmanning about 19th-early 20th century imperialism (which Western Europe took part in far more than the US did.)

The US helped bomb Yemen this decade. Drone strikes still happen in multiple countries if I’m not mistaken. America funds Israel now. That’s all happening now.

Which is irrelevant to the discussion.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#495

Post by briantakita »

skinnymuch wrote: post #479
briantakita wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure...We should not support wars where many people die & we should choose diplomacy instead. We should not funnel arms to violent ideological extremists as well. One of these extremist groups calls themself "The Right Sector". Many members of "The Right Sector" have tattoos that are Nazi symbols, hold large tiki torch marches, & have publicly proclaimed Nazi ideology. Do I dare mention the over 16000 civilians kille…

I wasn’t sure what you meant. It’s hard to tell what someone is indicating in online comments. I don’t think the world should stay out of Ukraine but I agree America doesn’t have to be in the war the way it is. Europe is powerful. I keep thinking Russia is a joke now. Whatever they get of Ukraine, isn’t the country a mess now? Would they be able to invade Georgia in 5 years? Other regional power like Indonesia, Iran,…

These neverending wars & the incentives that perpetuate the neverending wars are a tragedy. I've been following the Russian state's reasons for the invasion, which is to combat NATO encroachment & to de-Nazify Ukraine. Putin stated that the US is "agreement incapable" & Xi told Biden something to the effect "you say one thing but do another". India & the global south do not condemn the invasion. Putin's rhetoric about fighting imperialist colonialism is received well not because Putin is a wonderful guy, but because these words ring of truth to the audience.

I'm not happy with the invasion but given the aggressive expansionist behavior of Pax Americana, I don't know if there are any alternatives other than the West using diplomacy in good faith. Russians see this conflict as "existential" & will not back down. Given such a position, does diplomacy not make sense? Why don't we know more about their positions? The captured media only tells one story. "Putin is a madman hell bent on invading Ukraine", when in reality Russia, after Gorbachev decided to end the Soviet Union, has tried diplomacy for years but the agreements were violated.

There was a US backed coup in Ukraine in 2014, which the Nazis played an important role in. The Minsk 2 agreement was broken by Ukraine as it continued to attack the Donesk & Luhansk Republics, both of which declared independence from Ukraine after the 2014 coup.

Zelensky & Putin were about to come to an agreement in February before the west, via Boris Johnson, intervened.

My main point here is diplomacy is possible & the natural course but bad actors in Pax Americana, like the NeoCons/NeoLibs only push war & double down on war when these misadventures fall apart. This behavior also drives the conflicts in Yemen, Israel, South America, etc.

The NeoCons/NeoLibs used to be known as "The War Party". Fitting name. They push for war & as we have seen, war is what we have gotten for a long time. The War Party has caused widespread destruction & sponsored widespread terrorism throughout it's history.

The alternative is peaceful coexistence with Russia, China, South America, Africa, the Middle East, etc. BRICS & a multipolar payment system are developing, which I believe will usher in a new age of global prosperity. The question is, will Pax Americana dissolve just like the USSR dissolved or will it remain by sticking to it's stated policy explained as:

``` we have about 50% of the world’s wealth but only 6.3% of its population...Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which will permit us to maintain this position of disparity without positive detriment to our national security ```

or as the Chinese govt officials call it, The Thucydides Trap.

https://history.state.gov/historicaldocuments/frus1948v01p2/...

More importantly, can we stop the escalation of WW3 & stop nuclear conflict?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#496

Post by palata »

concordDance wrote: post #487
palata wrote: post #474

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He'll get fines ("settlements", I guess), and that will still have been cheaper than going the legal way. In the meantime many people lost their job in an irregular way (w.r.t. their country), and maybe they can't afford it. That's how much responsibilities too rich people have: it's cheaper for them to go the illegal way and screw those who worked for them.

The fines will be handed out in such a way that obeying the law would have been cheaper. That's how things are done in Western Europe.

That's how it's supposed to be. I doubt it really is in practice (at least not always). Let me rephrase it to what I think is the reality:

"The fines will be handed out in such a way that obeying the law would have been cheaper as estimated by people who don't really have a way to know."

-> That's how lobbying works: people on both sides argue, and some rule decides for something in the middle. It's not exactly a formal proof.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#497

Post by lispm »

panick21_ wrote: post #391
lispm wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But there were times when German companies actually were world leaders in the big things as well We have the world leader in civil aerospace in France/Germany, Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. There are many large high-tech sectors. It's nice that Estonia is successful, but it's not where the next big chip manufacturing sites will be build. Intel and TSMC are in talks to move t…

> Many high-speed trains in the world are coming from France or Germany. Sadly that isn't that many. And China and Japan are doing their own. The US plans to use Japan technology (Texas). So does Indonesia. Its just a smaller industry.

The US plans. Will it ever leave the planning phase?

Siemens signed with Egypt (8 billion Euros), Turkey, ...

Deutsche Bahn is investing ten billion Euros in modernizing their fleet.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#498

Post by skinnymuch »

krapp wrote: post #468
skinnymuch wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Democracy is about informed voters. The voters were tricked by silly things like lying bus ads. Doesn’t look like a Democracy to me.

If your definition of Democracy requires no deception or falsehood in politics then there likely has never been a Democracy in human history. The voters never work with perfect knowledge, and the politicians always lie.

There's a bar to what we should call Democracy. It clearly isn't America with how liberal manufacturing consent works. We're in a neoliberal era.

Besides their xenophobia and racism, at least the Nordic countries are closer to informed voters.

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#499

Post by skinnymuch »

edgyquant wrote: post #494
skinnymuch wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US helped bomb Yemen this decade. Drone strikes still happen in multiple countries if I’m not mistaken. America funds Israel now. That’s all happening now.

Which is irrelevant to the discussion.

The subject is about how the US sucks and should be critiqued. You're talking about defending what the US does around the world. I'm giving examples of how the US really is around the world, at least the Global South. What discussion do you think is happening?

Re: IRIS²: The EU’s Response to Musk’s Starlink

#500

Post by troad »

t43562 wrote: post #488
troad wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The flip side of it is exploitative large commercial almost-monopolies which do their best to make you spend money you shouldn't on things you don't need. Markets full of almost exactly the same deal dressed up so many different ways that you don't realise you're going to be stiffed any way you go. Cheap initial prices hide very expensive prices later on etc etc. Yes, Europeans are fond of telling scary tall tales…

California has a bill right now to do with preventing hidden pricing so you cannot argue that its' not an issue. We also have those problems so we don't need to "be scared by stories in the US" as we experience them. As for decline....look in the mirror. Everyone experiences it.

Defining a problem by reference to the amount of the legislation proposed to tackle it seems somewhat backwards. By that logic, Europe has a much greater gun problem than the US does, and its people are terribly confused by the geographic origin of food and drink.

> As for decline....look in the mirror.

I’m in Europe, so I can just look out my window. It’s very pretty! And completely sclerotic and dysfunctional.

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