Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

xmodtwo.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

491–500 of 1001 posts

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#491

Post by runarberg »

erybodyknows wrote: post #337
neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

On this topic: part of counterculture used to be the ability to *signal* your identification with the group to other group members. Styles of dress, certain symbols or artifacts have all been commonly used. How does one signal to others their social media rejectionism in the age of social media communication ubiquity?

A dumb phone, an old walkman, etc. but also some of the following: second hand clothes, a second hand bicycle, a car from the 90s, a cheap second hand watch etc. The gathering spaces include your local library, your small local music venue/record store, and your local print shops and book cafés.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#492

Post by Dig1t »

teachrdan wrote: post #394
Dig1t wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are scared to say this, because they quickly get labeled a Christofascist or alt-right something or other, but it's true. Trads are definitely the counter culture now. Tim Dillon made a joke recently, something along the lines of "The most radical non-conformist thing you can do now is wear rosary beads". I thought it was kind of funny, but also because it's true.

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or not. Catholics make up 23% of the US population. How can wearing rosary beads be non-conformist when Catholics are the single largest denomination in America? An astonishing SIX Supreme Court justices are Catholic. Was there ever a time a countercultural group had that kind of representation in government? Were there ever six justices who were hippies, or beatniks, or hobos?…

Yes you are right that there are a lot of catholic people, we are talking about _culture_.

How many TV shows, movies, or songs have come out in the last 10 years that featured Catholics in any way or catholic imagery, or even just general traditional values? Like maybe 1?

How many TV shows, movies, and songs have come out featuring gay people or gay culture? A huge number.

Compare this state to the 60's when the hippies were the counterculture, how many mainstream movies and shows came out featuring them? Were they the cultural mainstream? The answer is obviously no. Movies of that day were being made by the then-mainstream trads.

We were never talking about representation in government. If you want to have an honest conversation about religious representation in government you will very quickly be labeled an anti-semite.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#493

Post by undersuit »

rootusrootus wrote: post #418
undersuit wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBTQ isn't a choice, stop peddling this falsehood.

The actual traits described are not a choice, but identifying as part of the LGBTQ culture absolutely is. Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.

>Not everyone is comfortable advertising their sexuality to strangers.

Is that possibly because of the Traditional dominant culture?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#494

Post by satao »

thewrongthinker wrote: post #359
satao wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conservatism and traditional values can't be counter-culture since our society is based on them. It will never be counter-anything except progress.

In a sense I agree with you. What the person you are responding to is trying to say, I assume, is the new status quo is liberalism. As in lgbt, blm, van life, cannabis culture, casual dating, multiculturalism, secularism, etc. I labelled the above idea space “liberalism” but I’m not convinced it’s the right term. I am just lacking a better one. In any case, if we assume the to be the status quo, which I think we most…

You’re mistaken if you think “liberalism” is the status quo. It might be in the internet, but real life is not the same as Twitter. Just look at the push against abortion, or the massive incarcerated population, or the constant killing of poor people by the police. Or the raising of the interest rate to freeze salaries in detriment of bigger unemployment which won’t target the rich people?

Honestly saying that being conservative is a counter-culture just shows how alienated conservatives are.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#496

Post by yamazakiwi »

nemo44x wrote: post #162
neonnoodle wrote: post #71

The medium is the message dudes. At this point in history, what will qualify a true counterculture is NOT BEING ONLINE. Whatever the true counterculture will be, it won’t be subject to the Internet and its all-seeing eye. It won’t be made out of memes and flame wars. No matter what the political bent, we’re all very much a captive audience online. “Master’s house/master’s tools” and all that.

People should read “Gravity's Rainbow” - or at least an analysis of it. A major point/theme is that no matter what you do, if it’s useful/profitable/empowering/etc then it will be co-opted by “the man” or whatever. There’s a never ending graveyard of counter culture artifacts that existed to spit on the mainstream that were nearly merged in, packaged, and sold back to the hordes of consumers that think they’re outsid…

I've read Gravity's Rainbow and it's very melodramatic but a good read. What is "winning" in this case? A feeling of liberation through avoiding the main path can be useful for some, even if life is deterministic.

>It’s hard to listen to Rage Against the Machine without laughing.

People like music for all kinds of reasons...and I see what you're getting at, but this example is a little cheesy. "I think you're all sheep for thinking your not sheep and it makes me laugh." is essentially what I'm reading.

While counter culture does get co-opted, it's not like RATM was gonna actually do anything to help us socially since music had already been commodified for a long time. Counter Culture can even START co-opted e.g. Label Music/Industry Plants.

Where this book misses is the failure to ask the question: What is the purpose of viewing yourself or acting in favor of counter culture. To look cool? To feel powerful? If those things work in your life model who cares if it's not the most "punk" thing ever. Some people live their whole lives happy being "posers" and I would consider that successful for them.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#497

Post by rootusrootus »

refuse wrote: post #419
undersuit wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LGBTQ isn't a choice, stop peddling this falsehood.

I've heard a good part of younger generations think differently. I get the impression the pride thing represents more than sexuality to kids who don't share the same context as older generations. They almost treat it like a brand.

I agree 100%. I have two middle school-age kids, only one of whom has entered puberty but both have extensive thoughts on what LGBT(+) means. I do a lot of smiling and nodding, and just listening, because they really see it quite differently than any adult I have met. It's very much become an entire culture that is only loosely related to actual sexuality.

I am very interested to see how it plays out with my kids as they mature, and as their cohort matures into adulthood. It's fascinating, a little overwhelming perhaps, but not particularly threatening. They aren't at all militant, and I don't know if that's an age thing, or if the culture is evolving away from it.

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#499

Post by PuppyTailWags »

User23 wrote: post #361
undersuit wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because no one needs to change the way they act around you. Christianity and Catholicism are strongly majority groups in the US. You were already treated as a Christian because that's what the majority of our society is based on.

Catholic teaching is that men cannot become women and women cannot become men. Catholic teaching is that lying is sinful. Practicing the Catholic faith by saying "I'm sorry, but I can't 'use your pronouns' because that would be a lie by falsely saying you're a woman when you can't be" will get you reprimanded or fired at most any major US company.

I'm not catholic so please help me out here. If you cannot use requested pronouns, does your religion also ban you from using nicknames? Is it okay for you to be called User23? Is it okay to say someone's cat is cute even if you don't really care for cats? What do you do if your partner asks if they look good or bad in something?

Re: Do we live in a society without a counterculture?

#500

Post by antod »

burkaman wrote: post #437
alldayeveryday wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, you lump all of queer culture into one group, a false categorization without which your augment fails. In fact, I do lump them onto one group. Many subgroups inside a group. You know who I am referring to when I say queer culture. The group exists, it isn't false. Colors keep getting added to the flag. Rather than engage with reality you prefer to have useless rhetorical debates. Let's move past that. >Secon…

I'm pretty sure the word counterculture was literally invented to describe hippies in the 60s.

I'm guessing beatniks in the 50s myself.
Post reply on HN