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Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

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Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#491

Post by YuriNiyazov »

bmitc wrote: post #472
techwizrd wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also from the article: (a) Conlon does not practice law in New York where Radio City Music Hall is located. (b) Conlon is not an attorney pursuing active litigation against the MSG Entertainment. She works for a NJ-based law firm who representing another party in litigation against an unrelated restaurant which now happens to now be owned by MSG Entertainment. She's not part of that ongoing litigation. (c) > A recent…

The law firm was notified ahead of time, twice. Lawyers expect others to abide by such notifications, do they not? They act like this was a crime against humanity, when they were told ahead of time that they were not allowed in their venues during the ongoing litigation. Does the law firm have 100,000 employees? According to their website, they have about 29 attorneys in the firm. Bringing up companies the size of ci…

Yea, I am with you on this one.

I started out reading the article wondering 'OMG, what is it that this mom could've possible done that she's banned?' and then when it says "lawyer at adversarial law firm" I immediately switched to "oh yea, makes total sense".

None of the counterarguments here stand up to scrutiny.

"Isn't involved in litigation" and "not a Security threat" - she is totally a security threat: today she's a mother of a girl scout and is not working on the case, and tomorrow she's a loyal employee helping out with the case.

"Part of girl scouts trip" - Does she have a firewall in her brain between personal and professional?

'Conlon said she thought a recent judge’s order in one of those cases made it clear that ticketholders like her “may not be denied entry to any shows.” - You know what the best thing about America is? Our endless appeal system.

This entire article is a non-story (someone denied access to a business), and yet, it's somehow making the rounds. The paranoid cynic part of my brain is interpreting this entire situation as "A law firm that sent in an employee for some snooping, and then got caught, and now is making some noise in the papers." The lady doth protest too much, methinks.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#492

Post by Beltalowda »

andrekandre wrote: post #487
belfalas wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same, America and the West are significantly different from places like China or Russia. It's not even close.

what are some stand-out differences?

In most Western countries there is an extremely broadly held belief in individual liberty, which can be summed up as "do whatever you want as long as you don't unreasonably burden others". There is significant disagreement on what exactly does or does not "unreasonably burden others", but the core belief is held across the political spectrum for all except the extreme ends of the tankie left and fascist-y right.

Other differences, such as a belief in democracy, free speech, freedom of religion, etc. flow from this.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#493

Post by sidewndr46 »

This seems pretty cut and dry to me. If someone had a lawsuit against me, one of my businesses, or the like I wouldn't allow them or their employees into my establishments.

If there is a need for them to be there, law enforcement will be accompanying them.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#494

Post by kps »

LarryMullins wrote: post #430
gwbas1c wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I do not want your lawyers or their investigators or staff coming in and chatting with my staff or poking around my business without my lawyer being there. Which was not the case here. You can not summary ban every employee of a large company that's doing something you don't like. Kelly Conlon is not involved in the case against MSG, and (as far as I understand) had no knowledge of the case.

> You can not summary ban every employee of a large company that's doing something you don't like. Which laws forbid this?

I am not a lawyer, but the article contains the assertion that state liquor licensing law forbids it.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#495

Post by rstephenson2 »

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #491
bmitc wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law firm was notified ahead of time, twice. Lawyers expect others to abide by such notifications, do they not? They act like this was a crime against humanity, when they were told ahead of time that they were not allowed in their venues during the ongoing litigation. Does the law firm have 100,000 employees? According to their website, they have about 29 attorneys in the firm. Bringing up companies the size of ci…

Yea, I am with you on this one. I started out reading the article wondering 'OMG, what is it that this mom could've possible done that she's banned?' and then when it says "lawyer at adversarial law firm" I immediately switched to "oh yea, makes total sense". None of the counterarguments here stand up to scrutiny. "Isn't involved in litigation" and "not a Security threat" - she is totally a security threat: today she…

What she's alleging seems to be: the MSG conglomerate is using their large footprint to punish law firm employees unrelated to their dispute using venues also unrelated to their dispute. Doing it out of spite sounds possibly legal, if petty. But the other possible intention would be to try to dissuade law firms from taking a case against any MSG property, to try to deny legal representation to the plaintiff. Not a lawyer, but surely there's a law against that?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#496

Post by beepbooptheory »

chrisbaker98 wrote: post #450
beepbooptheory wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is just a rhetorical point of yours, but maybe we can start to accept that America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. Thinking about it, why would we be? I can't see a good answer to that without appealing to weird/nationalistic/naive ideas about the moral character of states themselves, or simply the understanble nonlogic of "well this is my cou…

> America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. As someone who has spent many years of my life living outside "America and the West": this is not remotely true.

Oh well that's certainly a relief in this context! I do appreciate the input here, but maybe to help you engage with the actual thought a little better (and for my edification, perhaps) do you have any reasons or theories as to why this is the case?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#497

Post by _carbyau_ »

ryandrake wrote: post #466
lmm wrote: post #426

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blacklisting is something we already recognise as wrong; banning who you want from your own establishment is fine, but passing around a list of people and banning them on someone else's say-so isn't. Perhaps the laws against it should be enforced, or strengthened.

I think in many contexts this would be desirable. If someone was belligerent and gets banned for starting a fight on Delta airline, I wouldn't want to sit next to him on my United airline flight. Venues should have the freedom to use whatever judgment/algorithm they feel will keep their customers safe, including sharing lists of troublemakers. If the list is too inaccurate, it stops doing its job and becomes a net-no…

Then one day you fart on an airplane and are no longer able to fly due to being a "troublemaker" that people wouldn't want to sit next to.

A community of people aren't built around absolutism. They are built around give and take.

You can't have your best day, every day.

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#498

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

ryandrake wrote: post #474
rapht wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your private property is what it is, private. Your business place, assuming a public business, is indeed that: a place open to the public by default. In France (and, as far as I'm aware, most European countries), there is a very clear line: either your business place welcomes the general public, or it does not. Once you fall in the first category - and, as soon as you're selling something in that business place, you…

Running a business doesn't magically turn your place of business into public property. I run a home business. Does that mean the general public are free to enter and roam around my home office? In the USA at least, you can kick out or ban anyone you want from your business for any reason, unless it is one of a very small enumerated list of disallowed reasons including race, religion and so on. If I don't want people…

>> there is a very clear line: either your business place welcomes the general public, or it does not.

> I run a home business. Does that mean the general public are free to enter and roam around my home office?

So you're in the second case. What's complicated about this?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#499

Post by beepbooptheory »

humanistbot wrote: post #482
beepbooptheory wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know this is just a rhetorical point of yours, but maybe we can start to accept that America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. Thinking about it, why would we be? I can't see a good answer to that without appealing to weird/nationalistic/naive ideas about the moral character of states themselves, or simply the understanble nonlogic of "well this is my cou…

> I know this is just a rhetorical point of yours, but maybe we can start to accept that America and the west as whole is not actually significantly different from China with stuff like this. This is such black-and-white thinking. Most EU countries are kilometers ahead of the US, and the US is miles ahead of Russia. Putin would love for Russia to race to the bottom and get to China's level, but Russia is way behind C…

My thoughts about surveillance and such in the world at large may well be wrong or naive, but I'm pretty sure I am not the one being black and white here. I think, in order to tell me off like you want to do here, you should say I am too equivocating of things, that I am not black and white enough!

You could be like "you see some particulars and generalize too quickly, countries do live and die by principles, not 'efficiency' or abstract incentive. You're turning everything grey, and forget that there is light and darkness, good guys and bad guys, black and white." That seems to be what you want to say to me, no?

Re: Facial recognition tech gets woman booted from Rockettes show due to employer

#500

Post by actionfromafar »

eastbound wrote: post #420
whoopdedo wrote: post #158

What does the Bar have to say about being a customer of a business you're suing. Wouldn't this be more of a concern for the law firm than the venue? But I can see how this has a chilling effect if you can lose access to goods and services because you're taking legal action against the company. Reminds me of the story I heard, though I forget the details (or even if it was true), about someone retaining numerous law f…

Imagine doing a chargeback on Google for a bug in their app purchase, and your Gmail accounts being revoked.

Didn't that happen?
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