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AWS and Blockchain

tbray.org

491–500 of 724 posts

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> imagine that database holds a lot of your money and you live in an oppressive regime That opressive regime holds: - your access to the internet (crypto requires continuous access to internet to function) - your access to exchange offices because crypto is useless if it cannot be converted to fiat So, what exactly have you solved?

> So, what exactly have you solved? Ownership of your funds, which is the primary requirement from which all others stem. You will still have those when you regain access to the internet, or the ability to spend them. The reality is that a government having the ability to confiscate the funds in your bank account, and attempting to restrict you and your neighbours peer to peer actions, personal mobility or internet a…

> > So, what exactly have you solved?

> Ownership of your funds

Nope, ownership is law. The problem you’ve mitigated (but not solved) is the ability to retain possession of your funds.

> The reality is that a government having the ability to confiscate the funds in your bank account, and attempting to restrict you and your neighbours peer to peer actions, personal mobility or internet access are totally different things.

They are motivated on rely on very much the same social conditions, they are not “totally different things”, and they are even less different the more it becomes necessary for the government to do the latter in order to achieve the effect of the former.

> No one claims your crypto currency will protect you from a bullet.

The capacity and willingness to use a bullet to effectuate their will for that end is what enables a government to drain your money from a bank; it may be masked and may not be immediately evident in the mechanics they use to do it in practice, because the time and repetition and institutionalization has routinized and streamlined the process. But, at root, its all the bullet.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is permissionless composability different from the MIT license? I'm confused what you're composing now that you couldn't before and the benefit of that permissionless composability. Ecosystems of programming libraries and compostable abstractions don't require a blockchain as far as I can tell.

The big difference is that a smart contract is a running, stateful, immutable piece of software. Alternatively, I can run software with an MIT license by myself, but I can always modify the data or API without any approval of the users.

In practice almost every vaguely live protocol has god mode where some "Sam" can upgrade the contract to whatever they want, because bug risk in immutable contracts is too high (VCs who fund the projects don't want to be sued for bugs). So this becomes functionally equivalent to a SQL server just slow and taking 100x the server capacity.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#493

> [Andy Jassey] said something like this: “All these leaders [CIOs and CTOs of huge enterprises] are asking me what our blockchain strategy is. They tell me that everyone’s saying it’s the future, the platform that’s going to obsolete everything else. I need to have a good answer for them. I’ll be honest, when they explain why it’s wonderful I just don’t get it. You guys got to go figure it out for us.” To me the tel…

I think one of the hardest parts of becoming an expert in a technical area is the transition from "I don't understand so I must be wrong" to "I don't understand so something must be wrong or I'm not seeing something".

When you're more junior you often make the mistake of wrongly dismissing ideas because you think you are very clever. I find that by the time you unlearn this, you typically should reverse direction.

Early in my career, every time something didn't make sense, it's because I had a misunderstanding of how things really worked.

Much later in my career I started to realize more and more often when I said "this doesn't make sense" I would start assuming I was the one missing something, only to time and time again uncover some one else had messed up or that something else was fundamentally wrong.

Obviously even the most expert in their field should reserve some probability that they are misunderstanding, but learning to recognize that you are an expert and that you not understanding something is in fact smoke is an important late career skill.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so it turns out that there are a fair amount of operations you can perform on financial objects to change their properties. You can buy, sell, combine, or split their risk profiles in different manners to get properties that are useful in different scenarios. Mortgage tranches played a big role in 2008, Black-Scholes helps us describe the behavior of options contracts, and maybe the most accessible for someone…

> The EVM specifically gives you a Turing complete financial system and, hence, probably a complete expression of operations on financial structures. Which is nice, but doesn't solve any problems that actually exist. That is the running theme with all of these crypto/blockchain/"defi" projects, because they are created by tech people who don't understand the domain. They just start building all of these things that s…

> because they are created by tech people who don't understand the domain. They just start building all of these things that seem useful to tech people, but completely miss what is actually important.

This is just false. idk what to tell you, but there are plenty of major builders in the crypto space who are highly regarded in tradfi. See ie jump

Even if it were true (it’s not), it’s also a thing that could be said about any product built by tech people and hasn’t really seemed to play out that way in most other places.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#495
post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely none of this is obvious.

What does "permissionless composability" in DeFi mean, if not this? Sure, its very expensive presently under the Ethereum version of "DeFi". Just like the original motorcar was expensive and fragile, and would break your arm occasionally while you crank-started it. Now, if the cost basis of each "DeFi" transaction is reduced by 5 orders of magnitude (see: Ethereum vs. Holochain) -- what are the potential outcomes of…

I have no idea what "permissionless composability" means. "Permissionless" isn't even a word (without permission or permission-less to be pedantic), and I can think of several overlapping contexts that those words could be meaningful in finance and/or software.

The problem is the language you're using sounds like bullshit.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#496
post #423

Amid all this sudden blockchain skepticism, one question remains prominent in my mind: where were all these skeptics when blockchain enthusiasm was on the rise? Sure, hindsight is 20/20, but you have to wonder if this chorus of I-toldya-so's were genuinely right, or if they are merely rewriting history to boost their own credibility. Blockchain was always experimental. The chance of success on any given project was a…

https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2013/04/09/I-bought-... https://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2017/05/13/Not-Belie...

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#497
post #448

Very nice article. As others have alluded to, I think Tim does miss an important point about trust. He writes: > we just couldn’t convince ourselves that the real world wanted zero-trust; so there was a transaction manager you had to trust. And then later: > It seems a good idea to have a land-registry database but, blockchain or no, I wonder if the large landowners might be able to find another way to fiddle the rec…

How does being able to point at a database prevent land being stolen in the absence of a trusted third party? It's not like the land itself can authenticate the farmer. For the database to have any weight, there'd need to be an authority that can enforce what it says (and won't take bribes to ignore it, or collude in extorting "voluntary" transfers). If you do have such an agency, well, there's your trusted third party.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A specific application I'm working on right now involves using Crypto for direct payments between software Licensees (end users) and the App developer. Presently, there is a high risk of loss of income (see: every small individual Russian or Iranian software developer. Their families are now suffering because their income has been shut off, even though this is a textbook example of "Group Punishment" under the Geneva…

Defi doesn't solve this at all. It is currently illegal for me and a lot of the world to buy software from Iran and Russia. Using blockchain to circumvent the law is the only use case people can scrape together. It doesn't matter if blockchain allows you to break the law. You are still breaking the law and punishments exists outside of the chain. Blockchain enthusiasts get confused between "a solution" and a "better…

Unfortunately, while many people believe this to be true -- there is nothing legally or morally wrong with you purchasing software from a small Russian or Iranian software developer. How do we know this, you ask?

In fact, the entire Open Source (and most Closed Source) stacks depend on this fact, including the stacks underlying the entire US Government's (and its Military's) operations. Which functions on large amounts of software (free and paid) from Russian individual developers.

So, any demand by them (or any other government) that you personally cannot pay Yegor the Russian for his little Python package is morally, logically, legally and practically ridiculous.

And "DeFi" absolutely does solve this problem.

The fact that "all the baaaad people" can also use "DeFi" is immaterial. Just like you, too, can buy and use a windowless white van.

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#499
post #448

Very nice article. As others have alluded to, I think Tim does miss an important point about trust. He writes: > we just couldn’t convince ourselves that the real world wanted zero-trust; so there was a transaction manager you had to trust. And then later: > It seems a good idea to have a land-registry database but, blockchain or no, I wonder if the large landowners might be able to find another way to fiddle the rec…

No. Tim did not miss an important point about trust.

You missed an important point about power.

Those large land owners do not give a fuck about your blockchain. They'll take the land and farm it anyways. You can "own" the virtual stake; they're happy to cede you cyber nonsense as long as they get to control who touches the actual grass.

The large land owners, who have local authorities in their pocket, would simply quote President Andrew Jackson's apocryphal opinion on blockchain: "The blockchain has made its decision; now let the blockchain's army and police enforce it!" [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia

Re: AWS and Blockchain

#500
post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so it turns out that there are a fair amount of operations you can perform on financial objects to change their properties. You can buy, sell, combine, or split their risk profiles in different manners to get properties that are useful in different scenarios. Mortgage tranches played a big role in 2008, Black-Scholes helps us describe the behavior of options contracts, and maybe the most accessible for someone…

> You can buy, sell, combine, or split their risk profiles in different manners to get properties that are useful in different scenarios. I would contend that the only reason things like options, futures, etc. are actually useful in markets like, e.g., the stock market, is, in no small part, due to the highly liquid nature of the underlying. Since the underlying is highly liquid, these derivatives are highly liquid,…

> Even though these "financial primitives" on the blockchain are neat from a technical standpoint, they tend to blow up precisely because the markets are not liquid enough (so second-order effects are amplified).

I would rephrase this to say that the less liquid state of blockchain markets limits the available set of financial primitives which are resistant to manipulation.

It’s true, but if liquidity is the only hurdle — I think you’ve more or less ceded that blockchain provides value. It just needs wider adoption. (Probably a stronger support of blockchain than I would personally offer.)

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