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Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

businessinsider.com

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Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#491

Post by makeitdouble »

lynx23 wrote: post #481
makeitdouble wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be fair to you if _all_ employees had a default lay-off protection ? That would be for the best as well.

Too much protection leads to dismal performance, because people know whatever they do, there are no consequences. I am not a fan of such an approach.

"Too much protection" doesn't match "whatever they do" to me.

On your larger point, looking at countries with pretty strong worker protection, companies still have a flurry of tools to punish or get rid of workers that are way below their expected performance or crossing lines. "We can't fire people" is basically a myth, or what people really mean is "We can't willy nilly fire people like they're cattle".

I've seen people fired on the spot after heated discussion with the direction or people let go following a month or two of HR monitoring. The company only needs to do its homework and properly document offenses, follow the processes, or pay the full price if it really wants to get rid of someone with no objective reason.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#493

Post by RestlessMind »

BjoernKW wrote: post #447
RestlessMind wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems you are working in a very niche area where most of the work is entirely asynchronous. In my area of work (non-trivial software development), there is a wide consensus that some in-person collaboration is needed on a regular basis. My company has fully embraced remote work, is going through an economic down turn like many other "growth startups" and yet finds it necessary to mandate meeting hours where everyo…

> some in-person collaboration is needed on a regular basis I keep hearing such arguments but those typically aren't backed up by any data or reason as to why that's the case. That said, poster child remote-first companies such as Basecamp, GitLab, or Zapier have their people gather a few times throughout the year, too, to allow them to get to know each other better. That's not a contradiction at all and something en…

> I keep hearing such arguments but those typically aren't backed up by any data or reason as to why that's the case.

I'd say burden of proof is on you to provide any data that remote work is equally good.

I have given remote-working a shot for three years - first ~1.5 were mandatory during COVID and last ~1.5 were during normal times. My company has gone all in on remote work and has tried to make it work. It just doesn't work and everyone is openly admitting its flaws. To name a few: a lack of trust, very shallow relationships, struggles for junior and new team members to ramp up, a lack of engagement etc.

Based on my personal experience and that of my social and professional circles, >80% people seem to prefer a hybrid model where they work 2-3 days in office and 2-3 days at home. Of course, in-office days have to be mandated for the entire team to be effective.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#494

Post by RestlessMind »

BjoernKW wrote: post #444
RestlessMind wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any proof that's truly the case? Not the OP but the proof is my own experience in both in-office and remote settings. And everyone is going to go by their own life experiences. If enough people think that remote setting sucks and that junior engineers, along with many other roles, are more effective in person, then the burden of proof is on you to demonstrate that that's not the case.

Well, there are entirely distributed, remote-first companies like Automattic, Zapier, GitLab, or Basecamp. I'm certain each of those also employs junior engineers. Therefore, someone claiming it doesn't work, is effectively saying it doesn't work for their company, which in turn gives rise to questions as to why that's the case: Is their company and its work truly that unique and special that it can only effectively…

> Well, there are entirely distributed, remote-first companies like Automattic, Zapier, GitLab, or Basecamp. I'm certain each of those also employs junior engineers.

Yes. My company is also in that category. We employ a lot of junior engineers too. >90% of them say they want some in-person interaction because it is hard to ramp up effectively on a complex codebase and a different culture.

> Therefore, someone claiming it doesn't work, is effectively saying it doesn't work for their company, which in turn gives rise to questions as to why that's the case

Because we are all humans and in absence of an in-person presence, we are not able to form trusting deep relationships.

> Is their company and its work truly that unique and special that it can only effectively be done synchronously and in person?

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#495

Post by eric4smith »

paulcole wrote: post #482
eric4smith wrote: post #337

Immigration related to work is generally shitty in almost any country worth working in. Even in countries not worth working in. In many countries, Once your employer fires you, then you have 7 days to leave the country. Period. The US/Canada/UK are relatively friendly about this and give a bit more leeway. Don’t get me started on Indian work permits. Yes it’s horrible all around. Working in another country is always…

> In many countries, Once your employer fires you, then you have 7 days to leave the country. Period. Just curious because I know nothing about this, but what are 10 countries where this is true?

I’m not gonna google that for you.

Don’t be lazy, spend the 15 minutes and do that research yourself.

Re: Meta fires a software engineer two days after he relocated from India to Canada

#496

Post by pas »

HWR_14 wrote: post #472
pas wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People with a hard time to be empathetic (alternatively let's call it theory of mind deficiency) or who have trouble with emotional regulation tend to develop coping mechanisms, for example a typical one is that they start to simply ignore feelings of others in most situations, don't mention feelings in communications, etc. Does this absolve them of hurting others? Of course not really, but it might help others under…

You disagree with the paper I cited, which says that there is no correlation? Do you have evidence or just a gut feeling?

The graph in the paper is very telling. It's pretty consistent with ADHD having non-significant negative correlation with EQ. But it's also very consistent with a small effect :)
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