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The case for bad coffee (2015)

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Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#491

Post by sleepydog »

Tao3300 wrote: post #293
skadamou wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

TBH I've always found European coffee to be somewhat lacking - even from European importers in the states. Sure there is decent espresso in Europe but I've always found I enjoy coffee from local roasters in my area of the US more. IDK if this is because Europe style coffee is all dark roast but that has been my experience.

While my European travels are neither recent nor exhaustive, only in Germany could I get a decent cup of drip coffee. Everywhere else the "cup of coffee" was a really bad Americano.

The German chain (I think?) Espresso house has always served me a decent Americano, and they're pretty widespread in Europe.

The worst espresso (machiatto) I ever had was from Fabrique in Stockholm. It tasted like straight vinegar.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#492

Post by ETH_start »

LesZedCB wrote: post #389
ETH_start wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're implying the farmers and workers would be better off if those low-paying jobs didn't exist, which is obviously not the case, as the fact that they took those jobs indicates it was better than the next best job available to them. This same fallacy applies to criticisms of FoxConn factory jobs in China or construction jobs by imported labor in Dubai. To you, the jobs are terrible, but to the people who get them,…

coffee wasn't from those countries where commodity coffee mostly comes from. it was brought by colonists. and if your whole argument is essentially reagan-era, neoliberal "a rising tide raises all ships" globalist economics, i have waterfront property to sell yah

That doesn't change the fact that the people of those countries are better off for those jobs existing.

>>and if your whole argument is essentially reagan-era, neoliberal "a rising tide raises all ships" globalist economics, i have waterfront property to sell yah

The last 30 years has seen the most rapid reduction of poverty in human history:

https://www.csmonitor.com/layout/set/amphtml/World/2016/0207...

Those countries that have received the most foreign direct investment - motivated by the profit opportunity of using their cheap labor - have benefited the most:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/743509/china-average-yea...

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#493

Post by Akronymus »

baxuz wrote: post #438
ryanSrich wrote: post #105

I’ve gone through several coffee phases, some bordering on extreme — extremely sensitive weighing, timing, $2,000 grinders, $10k espresso machine, etc. My happy medium is just doing basic pour overs, but with really good locally roasted coffee. To me, this is the cheapest and best approach. In fact, even if pour overs require too much work (weighing, timing), then just do drip. But do it with quality coffee. Quality…

I'm of the same opinion. I can't stand any dark roasts, as they actually upset my stomach. But ho boy have I tried cheap American coffee. That filter coffee you get in NYC. In 3 separate places including in a 5 star hotel. I've never tasted any coffee that was so horrible. And I'm brewing with an Aeropress for over 10 years. It's by far the simplest and most lenient way of brewing coffee, and produces excellent resul…

I routinely finish off the coffee at work thats been cold for 2 hrs, because I forgot to drink it quickly.

Never once had trouble because of that. Went to a 3 star hotel once that had coffee for breakfast, only tried that one once.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#494

Post by sweetgiorni »

zwieback wrote: post #201
staticautomatic wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t directed at you/OP, but the anti dark roast thing seems to me to be a distinctively American coffee snob hipster thing. Many places in the world have wonderful dark roast coffee. Honestly, are these people just wandering around Austria, Italy, Vietnam, Cuba, or Turkey complaining about bad the coffee is? Give me a break.

Agree, I don't even order coffee in Portland anymore because everything is "delicate, fruity, floral" light roast aka. tastes like goddam vinegar.

So funny to see this comment. Having moved to Portland recently I've been wondering why most coffee here is undrinkable to me. Guess this explains it.

If anyone is looking for recommendations, Clinton St. Coffee House has never once served me a sour cup of coffee.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#495

Post by mda »

slim wrote: post #433
sgc wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The darkest Italian roast has nothing at all to do with what goes as dark roast - and especially not Italian roast - in the US. The absolute darkest roast I ever saw in Italy was with just a hint of oil showing on the bean, and I only saw that once. They drink a medium roast most of the time, although there are light roasts readily available. I have seen documentaries with Italian roasters from Illy and on down to sm…

turkish coffee is also not only coffee. it's a mix with other flavors. so it's some sort of art. with each family having it's own recipe.

Turkish coffee is in general just coffee and water. Some drinks it with a little sugar.

There are varieties with cardamon or mastic but they are very rare.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#496

Post by __alexs »

baxuz wrote: post #445
staticautomatic wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t directed at you/OP, but the anti dark roast thing seems to me to be a distinctively American coffee snob hipster thing. Many places in the world have wonderful dark roast coffee. Honestly, are these people just wandering around Austria, Italy, Vietnam, Cuba, or Turkey complaining about bad the coffee is? Give me a break.

Austria has pretty bad coffee. 99.9% of shops sell Julius Meinl from pretty badly maintained espresso machines. And their coffee is usually burnt. Italy has, in general, people who know how to make better coffee as they treat their machines and the procedure with more care. The coffee isn't all that better. Both Lavazza and Illy are robusta blends. Turkish coffee has nothing to do with espresso coffee, or filter coff…

Illy advertise themselves as 100% Arabica and Lavazza have many products that claim 100% Arabica. Are you saying these are false advertising? Or is this one of those things where the cafe blend is totally different to the store blend?

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#497

Post by EmilyHughes »

hnarn wrote: post #485

The only part of being a "coffee snob" that I personally respect is the concern regarding the origin of the coffee itself and the conditions of the workers farming it. I'm not interested in the intricacies of what beans are used or what soil it has grown in, but I think there's a case to make that if you're buying Nestlé instant coffee and taking some kind of contrarian pride in that, you're at least partly proud of…

I really don't like buying it but the Nestle Instant-Coffee is simply the best my supermarket has available. I drink my coffee black and that one is pretty close to how it tastes from beans.

Most instant coffees have sugar and milk powder mixed in and taste disgusting. The Nescafe does the job and it's done in less than a minute.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#498

Post by benj111 »

ryanSrich wrote: post #105

I’ve gone through several coffee phases, some bordering on extreme — extremely sensitive weighing, timing, $2,000 grinders, $10k espresso machine, etc. My happy medium is just doing basic pour overs, but with really good locally roasted coffee. To me, this is the cheapest and best approach. In fact, even if pour overs require too much work (weighing, timing), then just do drip. But do it with quality coffee. Quality…

The pursuit of 'good' coffee is just getting stuck on the hedonistic treadmill though.

I chose to get off at the French press for weekends etc, and just have bog standard instant during the day.

I still get to enjoy better coffee, without spending ungodly amounts of money to get it.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#499

Post by diffeomorphism »

lisper wrote: post #190
LesZedCB wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

right, and i completely agree on that point. the counter-point is that everybody uses the "taste is subjective" as a bludgeon for there being not quantifiable difference in quality between offerings.

Of course there are differences. But, with a very few exceptions, none of those differences make one product objectively better than the others.

There are lots of "objectively better" cases, you just have to fix what you want to measure. If you dislike bitter, then some coffees will be "objectively less bitter". Or Kraft Mac and cheese vs pricy one: one uses "objectively better quality ingredients", one tastes "objectively closer to your childhood". Or dark roasted coffee that is basically burnt is "objectively worse" than non-burnt at being coffee, but might be "objectively better" at being a roasted-tasting beverage.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#500

Post by LilBytes »

jon_adler wrote: post #482
murukesh_s wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country has the best coffee as per your opinion then? Just wondering as in south asia we haven't started worrying so much about coffee yet - you either do traditional filter coffee[1] or buy instant coffee powder and be done with it. May be it's because coffee is almost always served with milk and sugar or we have other things to worry about. [1] https://theculturetrip.com/asia/india/articles/a-brief-histo...

Melbourne (Australia) probably has the worlds best coffee. It certainly has the highest proportion of baristas sporting man buns.

Nah, you lost that mantle years ago.

Brisbane reigns king now,

Yours LilBytes the pretentious online only coffee snob /s

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