A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit • Hacker News Board

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#491

Post by Gibbon1 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:39 AM UTC

dexwiz wrote: post #156

I wouldn’t be surprised to learn this is a common occurrence across tech. Coming from the Midwest, the West Coast seems full of cults. Talking to people, it doesn’t take long to find someone who was raised in a cult, or has family members in a cult.

Coming from born in the bay area and fairly deep roots on the west coast.

The post war boom years are a fertile time for cults in California. You had a lot of people who were isolated from their previous communities that were often easy marks for grifter run cults of all sorts. And not just California. But probably less visible in the Midwest with a less dynamic and conservative population.

Also: My definition of a cult is the question what happens when you try to leave?

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#492

Post by tomcam » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:41 AM UTC

ims wrote: post #148

kbarmettler wrote: post #129

As a former Oregon House resident, astonished to see it on the front page of HN. It's interesting to see the same strategy implemented at Google, apparently, that they reportedly used to get members employed by Yuba county. There was a minor scandal, an investigation leading to a bunch of firings, years ago. Allegedly members were using their ties to get the county to look the other way at countless unpermitted struc…

Fascinating. Have you written about your experience there?

Yeah, I want to be there for the podcast/article/blog too…

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#493

Post by tomcam » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:42 AM UTC

datavirtue wrote: post #333

vhiremath4 wrote: post #332

> One of the things they became known for was placing bookmarks in metaphysical bookstores — some members have described looking for guidance in a book, coming across a Fellowship of Friends bookmark, and joining the group as a result. Not gonna lie, this is a pretty clever recruiting technique.

Agreed. That's how I'm going to start my cult when I'm out of fucks.

Good pay, money for nothing, chicks for free, tax advantages… I’m in too!

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#494

Post by bowsamic » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:44 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #482

godmode2019 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that's not true? Islam for example is a religion, that you can not leave.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

> As of 2014, there were eight Muslim-majority countries where apostasy from Islam was punishable by death,[17][18][19] and another thirteen where there were penal or civil penalties such as jail, fines or loss of child custody.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#495

Post by iamevn » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

notacoward wrote: post #183

flakiness wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was after the termination, if I read it correctly.

Not clear. Author says "recently" but that also applies to the firing. AIUI somebody wouldn't even be eligible to join an Alphabet-employee union while not working at Alphabet.

I was my understanding that one of the Alphabet Workers Union bigger goals is to improve conditions for TVCs (temps, vendors, contractors) across the company.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#496

Post by bawolff » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:52 AM UTC

dubswithus wrote: post #456

mandevil wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, the thing is, at least based on the article, Burton- the accused groomer/pedophile/sexual assaulter- does not work for Google. If he did, I'm all for firing him right into the Sun. The article makes no allegations that any of the people employed by Google participated in or covered up the sexual assaults, just that they were members of a organization led by a sexual assaulter. I just get a little antsy about fi…

At the risk of sounding a little heartless, someone that joins a cult is very gullible. How can you be that gullible and still be considered top tier talent? Calling BSA and SBC cults is pure word play on your part. No reasonable person believes these are cults.

> How can you be that gullible and still be considered top tier talent?

Easily? I don't think there is any reason to think people good at programming are any less susciptible to being manipulated than anyone else.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#497

Post by bawolff » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:54 AM UTC

txru wrote: post #203

binbag wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what way are cults common in tech?

I believe the parent is referring more to referral/promo networks. For a positive example, I knew one of my senior managers basically brought 15 people from his previous company, to the point where a comfortable majority of people under him were from the company. This can be nefarious when the network arises from abusive or unhealthy environments.

While that may be bad, it is rediculous to call that a cult.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#498

Post by renox » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 6:55 AM UTC

selimthegrim wrote: post #482

godmode2019 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely that's not true? Islam for example is a religion, that you can not leave.

Seriously? OK https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#499

Post by raxxorraxor » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 7:04 AM UTC

newbie2020 wrote: post #284

ineedasername wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At minimum Google could have investigated the odd clustering of employees that indicated some sort of nepotistic hiring practice. Of course they might be doing exactly that, but it's not the sort of thing they can really comment on. Edit: also the self-dealing on hundreds of thousands of dollars in wine.

That is what DEI boards are for. Stamping out these natural clusters that form via social networks

DEI has its own cult leaders that set definitions many people would not agree with but tend to become mandatory dogma. Example is sexism, racism and topics relating to gender. It is just as ideological, maybe it has another algebraic sign but the animosity is easy to see. Problem with DEI is that it has official support contrary to this cult, which shouldn't have leadership positions as well of course.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#500

Post by rendall » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 7:10 AM UTC

> [Google] frequently served wine from Grant Marie, a winery in Oregon House run by a Fellowship member who previously managed the Fellowship’s winery

> In 2015, after [the Fellowship's] chief winemaker left the organization, its winery ceased production.

So Grace Marie is not a Fellowship winery after all, and it is run by a former member. Hard to make the case this is "self dealing" when the cult does not benefit financially from the procurement.

> ASG, not Google, hired contractors for the GDS team

If true, then it's hard to make the case that the Fellowship engaged in nepotism.

> The Fellowship came under fire in 1984... In 1996, another former member filed a suit... Both suits were settled out of court.

The newest of these allegations is 25 years old, and nothing was established.

Given that there are perfectly benign explanations for Kevin Lloyd's direct observations (nepotism, wine), and no direct evidence for sex trafficking, we're left with nothing substantial.

Lloyd's accusations seem rather like "connect the dots" conspiratorial thinking.

If we assume that the cult is a quirky but relatively benign and harmless group, the "retaliation" against Lloyd can then be explained by legitimate firing for harassment and religious discrimination.