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Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

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Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#491
post #83

Canada is the U.S.'s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Gun ownership is also high in Canada. In terms of guns per capita, the U.S. is #1 by a long shot, but Canada is #7 [1]. In Canada, guns owned per capita is one third of what it is in the U.S.. Canada also has mass shootings. The annual deaths from mass shootings per capita in Canada is 0.032, which is about one third that of the…

Finland have similar number of weapons, Swiss is not that distant, the issue are not weapons but society: any ruling class in pseudo-democracies (i.e. our formal but not substantial democracies) need something to pasture people avoiding revolts, the USA have built a false-free and competing ideology that's essentially push people to blame themself for their suffering and that's easily push fragile people toward nihilism, Swiss is not that different, only it's able to test people (mandatory conscription between 18 and 28 years of age, one paid month per year) and to offer not so bad overall living conditions. Other dictatorships choose different ways to pasture people.

The actual crusade against weapons, and I say that as an European left-wing Citizen is just because unrest was predicted due to neoliberal ruling [1] and they dislike the idea of an armed population that a day might shoot against them. In Italy fascists have done the same erasing military conscription NOT because it produce bad results (it do, but that's another story) but because they choose to even remove such hyper-basic training to form generations who shoot every days in videogames and in reality they'll probably follow what they have seen in movies, like run to the root trying "to escape", lock themselves in bathrooms, protect themselves with sofa or fridge door etc and I'm pretty sure most movies have done such absurd choices exactly to mentally push people toward such absurd behaviors.

Consider a thing: if you are satisfied you do not want war nor violence. If you are not your dissatisfaction might be weaponized to push you do things you do not want (including hard work, war etc) for the sake of the élite of the moment, if you are pushed toward illegality is even better: they can let you go and if needed trap you with legit reasons. That's how our societies are ruled and our subjects, not Citizens, allow that.

Weapons are common in USA just because they support the infinite-war economic model of USA rulers, but people need to be kept in a sorry state to obey, that's is.

[1] for USA just see https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Global%20Trends_Mapping%... along it's publication date (not 2020 but 2004 FOR 2020)

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#492
post #445

As a foreigner I find this subject very complex since the right to bear arms in on the US constitution. To change or "rewrite" the constitution trying to deal with this subject could dissolve the US. Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals. More protection in schools could be a starting point to address these awful events. I'm still in favor of law ab…

>Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals. Is that statement true though? The only person I know who owns a gun is a farmer and he never shot a criminal but wild boars. In the countries I lived(2 Western Europe, 1 Eastern Europe, 1 Middle East) no one I know ever shot at any criminals, any criminals were dealt through the police, we actually never saw…

It's exceptionally rare to shoot at criminals or even to use a gun in self defense. When a person in the United States purchases a gun, the three most likely occurrences where that gun will be used to shoot a human are:

1. suicide

2. murdering a romantic partner

3. murdering a stranger after an argument or while the owner is committing a crime

Harvard has a good site that summarizes current research on how guns are used in the United States.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-own...

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Where many U.S. states permit concealed carry of handguns, handguns are virtually illegal to carry in Canada. Transporting them from your home to the range is legal, but they must be unloaded, locked, and permits are required for the transport." I see no mechanism by which those laws would reduce mass shootings. A mass shooter would simply ignore them. The other policies you mention may be more relevant, but it goes…

As a former gun rights advocate who is now in favor of basically eliminating guns except for hunting… > I think gun owners would be much more receptive to regulation if they felt people were genuinely trying to separate narrow and effective laws from broad infringements that annoy many and accomplish little. From both positions, I’d favor regulation that explicitly aims to limit gun possession as much as legally poss…

According to wikipedia, Mexico, Belgium, Czech Republic, Afghanistan and Somalia have basically the same amount of guns per person. Yet some of these are among the safest countries in the world and in some of these you are very likely to get shot basically any time.

Just looking at the number of guns is very shortsighted and makes it sound you're focusing on "punishing sinful people" instead of making reasoned policy decision.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#494
post #89

It's time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal. People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don't and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child. People shouldn't point a gun…

Hey how about tests to allow people to vote and have children. Sounds like a great idea.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The root cause may be bullying and ostracization combined with the media contagion effect. This is a repeating pattern. Bullying: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/05/25/uvalde-texa... The gunman in Tuesday’s elementary school massacre was a lonely 18-year-old who was bullied over a childhood speech impediment, suffered from a fraught home life and lashed out violently against peers and strangers recently an…

Bullying doesn't even describe half of it. There are many people who feel abandoned by everyone. It's extremely lonely for some people, especially in today's age where the default is NOT to go hang out in person with friends. The default is staring down at your phone and getting hooked on messaging and media tunnels.

There was an article in recent months about the loss of communal spaces for adolescents. Put a group of teenagers in a park just hanging out, and a suspicious local will dob them in as loitering. Play a noisy game of football and someone reports it. Other places are pay-to-play. Or have alcohol and designed for adults.

This isn't the one I was thinking about, but is on the same topic: https://www.jstor.org/stable/43323577

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a former gun rights advocate who is now in favor of basically eliminating guns except for hunting… > I think gun owners would be much more receptive to regulation if they felt people were genuinely trying to separate narrow and effective laws from broad infringements that annoy many and accomplish little. From both positions, I’d favor regulation that explicitly aims to limit gun possession as much as legally poss…

Simply: no. Take a cold hard look at the institutions that fail children so spectacularly that they create mass murderers at a historically unprecedented rate.

What leads you do believe "the institutions" in the USA are are failing children at a substantially higher rate than any other country? And what specifically are you even talking about?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#497
post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live That’s not clear at all. The US has more anti-gun-violence activists than anywhere else in the world. There is some amount of friction, different in each country but not zero anywhere, between “what people want” and “what is the law”. Do you think North Koreans prefer living under a corrupt dictatorship? Why don’t they just make the dictatorship illegal? That’s…

If enough people actually cared about this, then you’d have people marching on the capitol, like after a certain president was not re-elected. If people haven’t gotten motivated enough after literally decades of this shit, I find it really hard to blame the law.

> If enough people actually cared about this, then you’d have people marching on the capitol, like after a certain president was not re-elected.

THANK YOU! Say what you will about those supporters but the fact they went that far to support something they believed in (albeit dumb honestly) is admirable.

Meanwhile the people with actual good values are just sharing senators' edgy tweets thinking that makes a difference.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's clear that this is the way Americans wish to live That’s not clear at all. The US has more anti-gun-violence activists than anywhere else in the world. There is some amount of friction, different in each country but not zero anywhere, between “what people want” and “what is the law”. Do you think North Koreans prefer living under a corrupt dictatorship? Why don’t they just make the dictatorship illegal? That’s…

I don't want gun violence, but I 100% want the 1986 National Firearm Act repealed. I believe fully automatic assault weapons and machine guns should be available for purchase, new, just like any other weapon. (Fully automatic weapons are legal to buy and own right now in the US, if you pay a $200 stamp tax and wait 9 months for the ATF to process the paperwork, but you can only buy "NFA" regulated machine guns that w…

Why do you want this?

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Where many U.S. states permit concealed carry of handguns, handguns are virtually illegal to carry in Canada. Transporting them from your home to the range is legal, but they must be unloaded, locked, and permits are required for the transport." I see no mechanism by which those laws would reduce mass shootings. A mass shooter would simply ignore them. The other policies you mention may be more relevant, but it goes…

> “I see no mechanism by which those laws would reduce mass shootings. A mass shooter would simply ignore them.” And yet, there does seem to be a strong correlation between “countries with stricter gun control laws” and “countries that have low rates of gun-related deaths and homicides”. Canada has between 6-8X fewer gun fatalities per capita compared to the United States - both homicides and unintentional/accidental…

Surely there are some laws that have greater effectiveness relative to the interference with peaceful gun owners.

If you care about working together with your fellow citizens who think differently than you do, you'll pursue such laws and push back on laws that have a bad relative effectiveness.

For instance, did you know that, in California, you cannot buy a new model of a pistol? The most recent model you can get, from a roster that diminishes every year, is from 2013. Why? By what mechanism is that effective? For the same level of annoyance to gun owners, surely there is something more effective? Therefore gun control activists should oppose and overturn that law.

But they don't, because either they are ignorant or because they are more interested in winning than working together.

Re: Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the feeling, but I don't think it would work. People would get upset and get even angrier at whoever they already think is to blame, and after a while everyone would become desensitized to it.

They still aren't going to be as traumatized as the parents who had to get their cheeks swabbed because some of the kids were so violated by gunfire that they weren't capable of being identified visually.

These parents died with their kids. They are just breathing bodies.
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