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The Coming Food Catastrophe

economist.com

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Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#491

Post by WalterBright »

gexla wrote: post #391
bryanlarsen wrote: post #144

The article actually has four solutions at the bottom. Compared to the severity of the problem, all four solutions are surprisingly simple. Not necessarily easy, but simple and straightforward. 1. Stop using so much corn to make ethanol. 2. Stop using so much seed oil to make biodiesel. 3. Stop feeding so much food to livestock. Bonus: reducing the livestock population provides short term calories! 4. Break the Black…

I live ridiculously frugal in a emerging economy country. It's not that I actively look to drop out of consumption, it's just that I lifestyle seemed to settle on this way of being. My entire cost of living is probably less than the cost of ownership of my small truck back home. I don't consume things which use corn as an ingredient. I don't use seed oils. My food is mostly wild fish (local markets.) If Russia were u…

If everybody ate wild fish, there'd shortly be no more fish.

Living off wild things ceased to be able to support the population many centuries ago. Even the pre-Columbian American people farmed.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#492

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

_yoqn wrote: post #407
DanHulton wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is not a "left-wing talking point" it is a fact. And it's no longer called "global warming" because some places will experience colder weather than they are used to due to disturbed weather patterns, and conspiracy theorists will jump on the chance to "disprove" it. But make no mistake, the earth is warming, at a much more rapid pace than ever before, and it is a man-made change.

> it is a man-made change Can you substantiate that claim with verifiable evidence? New England used to be under a 10-mile thick ice sheet during the last ice age. I think the Earth has been warming for a very long time. But this isn't only about the climate. The article also mentions COVID-19 shut downs which were mostly pushed by the left. The IMF is mentioned as some sort of savior and is definitely saturated with…

>Can you substantiate that claim with verifiable evidence?

to your satisfaction? probably not, but of course that is irrelevant

to the satisfaction of those with authoritative knowledge in the field? of course, but it is not necessary, because they are the ones saying it

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#493

Post by Guthur »

thematrixturtle wrote: post #446
Guthur wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? can you quantify what that means, are they going hungry, short of fuel, is their currency collapsing, do they have rampant inflation? Or is just that people that got us in this mess are telling you that some how russians are suffering so much that they have to give up. Wasn't that suppose to happen immediately upon the weaponisation of the USD? When will it happen, after we all starve, after all infrastructur…

Russia's official forecasts are for inflation north of 20%, GDP down 8% in 2022, and factories are offering free plots of land so people can grow their own potatoes. No shortage of fuel though, since they're having a hard time exporting it now. Although all industry in Russia is heavily dependent on spare parts from the West, meaning things will start breaking down quite soon.

Quite sure the whole world is at similar inflation levels, pretty sure it's about 30% considering the drop in profits from Western retailers, same revenue, massive drop in profits, the retailers took the inflationary hit but it will be passed on eventually. Just look at your fuel prices (supply issues there as well as monetary inflation).

Will this affect russia, of course, but if their level of inflation is rampant then so is the rest of the world.

Russia will likely deindustralise, but so will much of Europe, and even more so if Russia turned off the gas tomorrow. Remember this, russia could grind Europe to halt if it cut off the gas, which would be on top of an economic crisis that is already looking pretty bad. There is no alternative to the piped gas for Europe that's fact in any realistic time frame, no infrastructure plus the price would be at an extreme premium (piped gas is very cheap).

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#494

Post by [deleted] »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #430
FpUser wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I‘d rather die trying, than live in a non-free world." Well many people went to Ukraine to fight on their side. If that is what you do why would anyone bother "changing your stance". Just go and do it. But if you expect other people to perish in WWIII for the sake your stance they might hold a different opinion about that part.

those other people choose to, as they would rather vaporize than give an inch of their land to russia if you expect them to surrender or accept less, well, you'll have to make your case to them

[deleted]

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#495

Post by pvg »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #326
dang wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one of the neighborhood Karens Please keep that sort of slur off HN. We don't need it here, and you don't need it to make your substantive points.

> Please keep that sort of slur off HN. We don't need it here, and you don't need it to make your substantive points. I think that may be an overly heated response. Given that I have seen the term used as a pronoun applied to multiple genders, sex preferences, races, ethnicities, etc, I see the term as speaking to behaviors, rather than being a pejorative unique to a group. Here are good examples of it being applied…

'internet forum aspiring to curious conversation' and 'youtube videos making fun of people's public meltdowns' have different standards and HN's are pretty well documented.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#496

Post by FpUser »

ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #430
FpUser wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I‘d rather die trying, than live in a non-free world." Well many people went to Ukraine to fight on their side. If that is what you do why would anyone bother "changing your stance". Just go and do it. But if you expect other people to perish in WWIII for the sake your stance they might hold a different opinion about that part.

those other people choose to, as they would rather vaporize than give an inch of their land to russia if you expect them to surrender or accept less, well, you'll have to make your case to them

>"those other people choose to, as they would rather vaporize than give an inch of their land to russia"

If that was the case we would have active war in Crimea in 2014.

>"if you expect them to surrender or accept less, well, you'll have to make your case to them"

Why would I make any case? I do not expect anything. It is their choice. Also I do not think the talking was about Ukraine in particular. The statement was generic.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#497

Post by rch »

pvarangot wrote: post #386
exploding_water wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The third solution doesn’t make much sense since livestock consumption is mostly made up of inedible foods that we can’t eat like husks, stems, leaves, etc. of plants. Livestock is effective for up-cycling foods we can’t digest and turning it into foods that we can such as meat and dairy. Also there is a lot of food waste in the US. Good food that is suitable for livestock…

Soooooooo "Roughage Products" which is fiber, that humans also need to eat BTW, is usually something like 25% of pelleted food. The main ingredient in pelleted food is usually digestible by humans and between 6% to 15% protein, it's like 25% to 30% depending on the pelleted food. Pound by pound going by the estimates that "eat cow advocates" use you need 12 pounds of food per pound of beef produced, if half of that i…

Other factors aside, are you claiming that 100% grass fed beef is equivalent to grain finished cattle? I don't have any information to the contrary, and some do take liberties with terminology, but I'd be very interested to learn how this labeling is applied.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#498

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Guthur wrote: post #485
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the people that got "us" into this mess are the ones who initiated a genocidal war of territorial conquest in modern times (after repeatedly lying that they would) not coincidentally, they are also the only ones who can get "us" out of it, by withdrawing – the Ukrainian people have seen the rape, torture, and executions that result from allowing genocidal russian troops to control a single square foot of Ukrainian la…

Please, stop this moral high ground rhetorical hypocrisy of the highest order. The US has had no qualms about invading countries or applying sanctions that harm innocent people. There are no good guys. People will all do terrible things for "the greater good", there is no worldly greater good from these soulless bureaucratic monoliths of state hood. They will set targets and strive for them irrespective of the human…

please, stop this moral equivalency rhetoric

this is not the U.S. opposing russia, but the world - literally the majority of all countries

the rest of your post is whataboutism that fails to justify russia's genocidal war of territorial conquest against Ukraine and Ukrainians, both of which russia believes should not exist, period

the world hears russia's farcical pretexts of "denazification" and recognizes it as a cynical ploy to preempt the obvious comparison of russia to the last country which attempted a genocidal war of territorial conquest in Europe

if you want to stop russia's genocidal war of territorial conquest in Ukraine, speak out against russia's genocidal war of territorial conquest in Ukraine

as for international aid to Ukraine, lethal and not, that is what the Ukrainian people ask for, and no amount of russian whinging and concern trolling allegedly on their behalf, or ridiculous "come at me bro"-esque macho encouragement for more countries to formally declare war, will prevent the world from answering their pleas against russia's genocidal war of territorial conquest

>Edit: For the record i'm not justifying or demonising either side

Edit: yes, that is the problem. one side is perpetrating a genocide, the other a victim of it. As Desmond Tutu said, "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor". That is your choice here.

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#499

Post by the_gastropod »

abandonliberty wrote: post #486
metta2uall wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When scientists take all the complex factors into account and do the sums it turns out that in general plant-based foods are still far more sustainable than livestock, e.g. https://theconversation.com/climate-explained-how-the-climat...

I haven't seen one of these that takes major factors into account. Tires and pet food contain animals. Animal by-products are used everywhere. Switching away would require replacements. Replacements would become more efficient with economy of scale, but initial switching costs will be high. Some replacements, like food for our obligate-carnivore cats, might not be possible. Simplest example: Beyond meat is 2-4x the p…

Which do you suppose is the bigger problem in food information: dishonest vegans—0.5% of the US population, btw—evangelizing or the lion’s share of the meat-eating public doesn’t like to hear and acknowledge that their favorite dishes are harmful to the planet? I suspect the latter is a more widespread issue…

Re: The Coming Food Catastrophe

#500

Post by optimiz3 »

einpoklum wrote: post #354
AussieWog93 wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>1. Stop using so much corn to make ethanol. >2. Stop using so much seed oil to make biodiesel. Easier said than done when there's a global fuel shortage too!

So, 5. Stop using private vehicles so much in favor of public transport + bicycles. Et voila, no more fuel shortage. ... of course, this is even more easier-said-than-done for the US :-(

Enclosed spaces with the general public in a still ongoing pandemic?

Also:

"In a recent survey, 99% of respondents felt everyone else should use public transit"

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