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A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

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Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#491

Post by CogitoCogito »

rglullis wrote: post #486
CogitoCogito wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "It's only one block away" and "most homeless people are harmless" would never be words of consolation in case of any calamity. This is extremist thinking and frankly quite useless without considering the actual level of risk involved.

Of course it is extremist thinking! We are talking about the survival of your own children, not some utility maximization function. Imagine a game of Russian Roulette with one bullet in a gigantic chamber (N slots) where you get to win a small prize every time the gun doesn't fire. Is there any sense in asking if there is a N large enough to make you consider playing this game consistently for 2-3 years, when the gun…

> Of course it is extremist thinking! We are talking about the survival of your own children, not some utility maximization function.

Extremist thinking does not improve the likelihood of your children's survival.

> Imagine a game of Russian Roulette with one bullet in a gigantic chamber (N slots) where you get to win a small prize every time the gun doesn't fire. Is there any sense in asking if there is a N large enough to make you consider playing this game consistently for 2-3 years, when the gun is pointed at your kids?

You do this all the time when you take your kids for a drive, on a plane, outside, when you feed them, etc. Hell in your supermarket example, someone inside the store could just kill them there after you dropped them off.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#492

Post by asoneth »

dionidium wrote: post #200
beej71 wrote: post #47

I don't have any kids, so I don't really feel comfortable telling folks how to raise theirs. But I will tell you my perspective. As someone who grew up in the "be back home in time for supper" 1970s, today's world seems completely foreign. When I started kindergarten, Mom walked me to school on the first day so that I'd know the route. And after that I walked to school on my own until I learned to ride a bike. I rode…

> Recently I drove by that school, and the bike racks were gone. This is the thing: the bike racks are gone because so are the kids walking/biking to school. If you let your kid do it, they'll be the only one. I walked to school in the 80s and there were lots of kids in my neighborhood walking to school at the same time. That's a very different experience. I also lived in a neighborhood that was laid out in the early…

I mostly agree. The majority of neighborhoods in the US are designed to support enormous vehicles driving as fast as they can and are therefore an unnecessarily hostile environment for everyone else. I would not choose to risk my children walking on their own just to make a point or "be the change" in a place like that.

However you can choose where to live. there are still plenty of walkable neighborhoods in cities, suburbs, small towns, etc. The issue is that you will have to find them and then you will have to pay more for the privilege of living there.

With respect to finding them, we used national commuting mode share and various websites to pick a handful of regions that had a reputation for walkability, spent a bit of time on Google Maps, called the schools to inquire about their mode share (e.g. percent of children who walk/bike minus the percent driven by parents), chatted with the folks who run the state's Safe Routes to School program, and rented an apartment while we spent a couple months biking around the candidate neighborhoods/towns, especially during rush hour.

With respect to cost we were priced out of the really walkable areas but were able to find something where many kids walk or bike to school on their own in our price range. Based on price premium for walkable areas it seems that a lot of home buyers prioritize the same things we do but not a lot of new neighborhoods are built to prioritize walking. It felt like there were a lot of people competing for a relatively fixed pool of (typically old) neighborhoods.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#493

Post by int3rlop3r »

Yes but you also gotta keep an eye on them if you choose to do so. This article assumes that all shopkeepers are good people. In my experience a lot of them happened to be pedos.

Turns out it wasn't just something I experienced. A lot of my friends who grew up in different towns had the same experience.

The whole purpose was to teach your child to interact appropriately in public but your child ends up being molested by these monsters, it's just so traumatic. Take care of your kids!

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#494

Post by vimy »

bbu wrote: post #474
vimy wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

> Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in. you can't just say something like that without any supporting facts.

The facts aren’t in English so not very useful here. Interesting that I need supporting facts but the person who claimed the opposite doesn’t.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#495

Post by vimy »

BurningPenguin wrote: post #487
vimy wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true in Western Europe. They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics and their own communities have grown big enough that there’s no need anymore to try to fit in.

> They are heavily overrepresented in crime statistics Judging from my own anecdotal experiences as someone who "doesn't look like a German", i'm willing to take a wild guess why: Because everything they do is under a microscope. I got my bags searched, because i "walked suspiciously through the isles" in a store (woman thought i'm a foreigner) and i got a false accusation by a police officer who said he "knew people…

Research shows that even corrected for what you’re describing the numbers still show an overrepresentation compared to their % of the population. Just an example, they were 63 % of prisoners in The Netherlands a couple years ago. Similar numbers in other Western European countries.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#496

Post by a2tech »

boomboomsubban wrote: post #405
a2tech wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife grew up in the city, and I grew up in the country (not the pretend 'doctors commute to the city and have 10 acres they pretend to farm and raise horses on' but 'white trash, holy shit there's no work' county) and my wife is HORRIFIED by how much violence and random crime there is where I come from. My family still asks how we can live in the city since its so dangerous while meth heads are stealing anhydrous…

If it's anything like my experience in a rural town, they'll bemoan the dangers of the cities while Tom's kid got into meth and conned/robbed ten people they know, Dick's kid goes to the bar every night then drives home drunk to beat his family, and Harry's kid was hiding that he had HIV to sleep with several women in town.

Yup. My best friends dad would stop at the gas station every night after his shift (2nd shift at a foundry) to get a 6 pack of Labatt that he'd drink while driving home, get home and keep drinking. On a good night he'd smoke, drink more beer and eat warmed up dinner. On a bad night, he'd come home, keep drinking, and get into it with his wife and smack her around for awhile.

As an adult I realize why they always wanted me to stay over was he wouldn't lay into them while I was there. He'd just leave and go to brothers house. Or as we found out later, his girlfriends.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#497

Post by Spooky23 »

godelski wrote: post #430
Spooky23 wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crime stats are a difficult thing to make comparisons with between jurisdictions and over time. I grew up in 1980s NYC. They flat out didn’t respond to take reports for certain types of crime, and may deliver a beat down to some weirdo following kids around. Unless it’s a clearly serious felony like a murder or burglary, you aren’t really getting any information. I would say that what people worry about is random fre…

> Unless it’s a clearly serious felony like a murder or burglary, you aren’t really getting any information. Good news! The numbers reported in my citation are specifically about: Larceny/Theft, Burglary, Aggraveted Assault, Motor Vehicle Theft, Robbery, Rape, and Murder/Non-Negligent Manslaughter. Every single one of these has drastically decreased since the 90's (90's increased in crime since the 80's but current l…

It’s kinda hilarious that you’re chiding me for not reading the link when you didn’t read the comment.

Those are index felonies, and have nothing to do with walking to school. Quality of life crime, non-criminal bad behavior, sidewalks, and traffic hazards all have more impact and aren’t measured in a uniform way.

In fact, I’d argue that there’s an increase in petty street crime as policy has changed and we no longer pursue most minor stuff as it makes stats look better and pts lip service to various social goals.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#498

Post by rglullis »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #491
rglullis wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it is extremist thinking! We are talking about the survival of your own children, not some utility maximization function. Imagine a game of Russian Roulette with one bullet in a gigantic chamber (N slots) where you get to win a small prize every time the gun doesn't fire. Is there any sense in asking if there is a N large enough to make you consider playing this game consistently for 2-3 years, when the gun…

> Of course it is extremist thinking! We are talking about the survival of your own children, not some utility maximization function. Extremist thinking does not improve the likelihood of your children's survival. > Imagine a game of Russian Roulette with one bullet in a gigantic chamber (N slots) where you get to win a small prize every time the gun doesn't fire. Is there any sense in asking if there is a N large en…

Like I said, this is not a maximization function. It is a filter.

The idea is to avoid things where the upside (even if highly likely) is small but the downside is (even if highly unlikely) catastrophic.

> You do this all the time when you take your kids for a drive, on a plane, outside, when you feed them, etc.

Kids need to go outside, occasionally get on a car or plane and they certainly need to be fed. These are all things were the upside is significant, so of course they need to be done and we do it without wondering about the downsides.

Going on the streets of Berlin by themselves at age 5 is an unnecessary, avoidable risk with very little benefit. It doesn't need to be done, so we don't. It's simple as that.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#499

Post by GordonS »

agilob wrote: post #476
tempnow987 wrote: post #67

Not in the US they can't. "officials placed two brothers into foster care after one, 11, was found playing basketball alone in his own yard." He'd gotten home early from school and his parents came 90 minutes later. He was in his own yard. The family lost their children to foster care. Ironically in foster care ACTUAL abuse rates are pretty darn high! "When Cindy and Fred arrived home they were arrested for child neg…

When I was 5 my parents went on holiday abroad for 2 weeks and left me alone at home with 2 dogs. We had great fun after I learnt how to use analogue camera

I grew up in the 80's, and was given a lot of room to roam.

But I think the majority of people, of any age, would describe what your parents did as neglect.

Re: A 4-year-old can run errands alone and not just on reality TV

#500

Post by jccalhoun »

rootusrootus wrote: post #397
jccalhoun wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more context on the situation: https://web.archive.org/web/20150526230348/http://www.washin... (the actual washington post site keeps giving me an error)

This is confusing, because you are linking here to a story about a couple in Maryland. "Cindy and Fred", as quoted in the post you replied to, are in Florida.

My mistake. I highlighted one sentence from the parent's post and it led me to this story. I thought it was the same people? I guess not.
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