Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes • Hacker News Board

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#491

Post by tomatowurst » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:01 PM UTC

arrosenberg wrote: post #486

tomatowurst wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, one group of people got rich and now a different group of have-nots are mad at the people left holding the land. Very much so and it probably stings even more for that have-not group, that its people from what they perceive to be of "third world origin". There's just no helping such people, instead of seeking ways to better themselves, they choose to live in a state of angst and anger and expect the government…

You seem pretty obsessed with xenophobia, but its really just easier to target wealthy foreigners than wealthy domestics. This is a class and land use issue - the have nots don’t need to “better themselves” (nor do they need the implied patrimony in that statement), they need homes on affordable mortgages. The government can do that! We know they can, because they have before, you just need the land. Oh look, some un…

when you aren't affected by it, you are more likely to discount it. the people aren't going after iranians or russian foreigners. they are literally singling out one group by race in Vancouver.

Again you don't live here and you don't fall in the category so you won't understand how sensitive this issue is here.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#492

Post by workaccount21 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:02 PM UTC

VincentEvans wrote: post #7

I don’t know the specifics on Canadian real estate market and the specifics of the problems there, but based on my understanding of the problems facing your neighbors to the south - I feel like it’s almost an attempt to appease citizens by blaming the issue on “foreigners” (always a move that is popular with politicians) to redirect attention from the much more likely cause - massive investments made by hedge funds,…

"foreigners" make up 50% of Canadas largest cities - where all the money is. The richest of the world can afford to move there but farmboy from Peterborough is SOL if he ever wants to make real money. Im fine with putting your own citizens interests before the rest of the world.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#493

Post by Melatonic » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:03 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #411

cameronh90 wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's only so far you can bus, train, drive, bike, walk, seaplane, helicopter, hyperloop, or transporter in to go to work. Canadian cities are, just like cities in the US, hitting this limit rather aggressively. Canada's largest urban area is 5.6 million people. London, Paris and Seoul are around double that, NYC is 19 million and Tokyo is 37 million. Why are Canadian cities hitting this limit at such a comparati…

> Why are all the major cities in the western world seemingly hitting this limit at the same time, even though they all have different populations? I can’t speak for Canada, but in America the answer is always cars. Car based transit is wildly land inefficient, and the main reason why all car based cities hit their limit at the same time. In particular there are two huge shortcomings with cars in urban design: 1. Par…

Isn't this more a limit of dense (taller) housing?

If we had much more housing in tall buildings near where people worked then they either would not need a car or would at least not need to drive their car to work. You still of course need to provide parking but tall parking garages can solve that as well (or underground).

Seems like tons of cars are the symptom of the problem here not the cause

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#494

Post by 3qz » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:04 PM UTC

b3morales wrote: post #4

3qz wrote: post #3

There’s an exception for students and a lot of other loopholes here. I think it’s an excuse to give up after 2 years with “proof” that it was a bad idea.

Those exceptions -- for people who live and work in Canada but aren't citizens -- look to me like basic requirements for this to have any chance at being a reasonable policy. Excluding noncitizen permanent residents from home ownership would be a great way to make sure approximately zero high income (thus high tax) people want to migrate to Canada.

Nobody in Canada is buying property because of their high income. The top 1% doesn’t make enough for a house anywhere within an hour of Vancouver or Toronto. I don’t think income tax is really a factor here.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#495

Post by ericmay » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:05 PM UTC

paconbork wrote: post #353

ericmay wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know someone who commutes from Kitchener to Toronto on GO, so they don't even have to put up with driving, and they're debating moving back home to Winnipeg for a 40% salary cut just to not have to put up with it any more. Isn't this a good thing in some ways or maybe many/all ways? Now wealth is less concentrated in one or a few locations. Every dollar not spent commuting is a dollar spent at a local coffee shop…

In theory, yes it would be nice to have the wealth more spread out, but jobs aren't concentrated in Toronto just for lack of creativity. The agglomeration of talent causes firms to be more productive, earn more money, and pay employees more. If a company moves to Winnipeg, the lose some access to the most productive employees and their employees have fewer companies to move to where they'll be more productive themsel…

Yea but paying employees more means they can afford to buy more expensive houses. It all fits together.

While I think there's a lot that Canada (and other democracies) can do to help reduce housing prices, it's almost like a truism that if you have a great city with a lot of high paying jobs, getting closer to the city and getting access to that city will be expensive. I mean, if we were to take what you were saying to heart, why doesn't all of Canada move to one city? Clearly there are some bounds.

> So while you'd be spending a larger percentage of your money locally, you'd also be spending less money in absolute terms.

True, but in absolute terms it's cheaper to live where you're spending the money as well, which pays for a house, etc.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#496

Post by exfascist » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:06 PM UTC

hnlmorg wrote: post #490

exfascist wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I hate driving and actually moved to DC for work and also partly for the transit. Here's what I found: 1) Taking the metro many places (for example, from my apartment in an urban "luxury" apartment building a couple blocks from the initial station to my boat near the waterfront in downtown DC) doubled the time it took to get there. It was actually faster to drive there even during rush hour where you'll sit motion…

The problem is you’re comparing the commute by public transport in the current status quo and missing the point that fixing the car culture means improving public transport so that it does become more convenient than taking the car. Plenty of European cities have achieved this. I work in London and I wouldn’t even dream of driving into the city. It’s far more convenient to get the train.

I think you should read my comment a little more carefully. 1 and 2 are due to serious physical and economic constraints that are very unlikely to change and apply to all but the absolute most dense areas. Remember, this is in DC. It's unusually dense and is supposed to be the best we have. 3 and 4 are additionally due to cultural, historical, and demographic problems that are becoming worse rather than better and the current political situation is working to accelerate it.

I'm not against transit but it's not the solution people think it is.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#497

Post by heavyset_go » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:07 PM UTC

cameronh90 wrote: post #465

heavyset_go wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that NYC is not such shining example when it comes to commutes or sprawl, either. That particular corridor has some of the most traffic and longest commute durations in the country.

Sure but it got to almost 20 million before it hit that point, unlike Canadian cities. There's also only been one subway line opened this century. We seemed to do better at facilitating growth last century, particular in the first half. Since then we've struggled, mostly for political reasons.

It hit that point long before it reached a population of 20 million.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#498

Post by nemo44x » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:07 PM UTC

8note wrote: post #473

nemo44x wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can inspect certain things. But you won't be inspecting to see if there's an oil tank buried in the yard, the quality of the chimney, if there's any radiation in the basement, and plenty of other things. But yes, you can probably inspect the construction quality and foundation pretty easily, a visual inspection of the roof and siding, and if you care the quality and age of utility appliances. You can also pull th…

Checking for radiation in the basement sounds like something you can do passively as you walk through? All you need is a Geiger counter?

I think because Radon is a gas it’s difficult to do. Every test I’ve seen has to be setup and left in place for a few hours.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#499

Post by cmrdporcupine » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:08 PM UTC

CPLX wrote: post #428

wnolens wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like the conclusion, but I've created some elaborate financial models to compare buying versus renting (+ investing the difference in S&P500). And so have a few very intelligent friends. It almost NEVER works out in favor of buying except for some crazy flukes like pandemic accelerating prices in Toronto. I think it's largely cultural? Canadian's (more than any of my American friends) are fed the idea that owning a…

Your models are almost certainly missing something. In a perfect world that would be true but in the actual world where lending is subsidized and tax-preferenced and the supply of housing is artificially constrained buying is just clearly a better scenario if you can do it. Some people do this by comparing a 5:1 leveraged portfolio of the S&P 500 against a home purchase or something but that's not a real comparison t…

Mortgage lending is not tax-preferenced in Canada like it is in the US.

But our housing market is ridiculously overheated for other reasons.

Re: Canada to ban foreigners from buying homes

#500

Post by rank0 » Thu, Apr 07, 2022, 10:10 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #458

rank0 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homeowners don't need to orchestrate and elaborate scheme, they just vote for the politicians who will prioritize increasing home values because that will help them financially. Or y'know...maybe homeowners don't want to have their neighborhood become overcrowded. Not everyone wants to live in a megacity with traffic, air pollution, constant bustle, and restricted personal liberty. If financial gain is your only mo…

>Or y'know...maybe homeowners don't want to have their neighborhood become overcrowded. Nothing I said here is specific to neighborhoods. It also applies at the city, state/province, and national level. A homeowner in San Diego likely doesn't care about the density of various neighborhood in San Francisco. But they might still vote for Prop 13 which put harsh limitations on property taxes in the state and in turn inc…

Prop 13 is intended to protect homeowners from being gentrified out of their residence. Even if I think it's backfired, I understand the motivation. I would be livid if I was a lifelong CA resident and suddenly could no longer afford my lax liabilities as a result of demand/speculation.

This is just one piece of the puzzle, and frankly its a bit much to chalk it all up to power/greed. Again, if CA homeowners make up the majority of voters what exactly is the alternative?

If I'm being honest, my opinion on CA housing markets means nothing...but it seems pretty sensible to me that when a shitload of people all want to live in a handful of cities, prices HAVE TO increase. Removing prop 13 and zoning restrictions isn't going to double the housing supply.

On a semi-related note, pretty much everything in CA is more expensive. The residents there vote for expensive public services and legislation. When everything is more expensive, you bet your sweet ass houses will be as well.