Live data from Hacker News

Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

wsj.com

491–500 of 624 posts

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what affirmative action will look like. If you want to see the context of such an action happening somewhere for long time, take the example of India. There it is much more explicit and written in the law. For some subjects, the criteria it takes for one cohort to get admission in the top college is the same one in which the other cohort will not even get admission in any college in the top 20. You can see th…

It is simply a bad mechanism and argument to put injustices of the past on the shoulders of new generations, especially with goals defined in such a blurry manner. On the contrary, the best remedy is to treat people as equals. That isn't unpractical realism, nothing else is required. Of course some will have a huge head start and culture towards education is a very important factor. But you can shelve the false justi…

> It is simply a bad mechanism and argument to put injustices of the past on the shoulders of new generations

There's no argument to be had; injustices of the past do land on the shoulders of the present generation. Everyone is born into circumstances they did not create.

There is a reason "The sins of the father shall be visited upon the sons" is a saying.

Now, given that reality, the question becomes "What does a society do about it?" When people believe in equality of opportunity but can see that opportunity is heavily influenced by birth circumstance, how does one address that fact?

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#492
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This means someone scoring 95% would not get get an admission offer while someone else scoring 15% would. Sounds entirely made up. All these exams generally have a minimum clearing criteria at 60-65%

I mean the data is one google search away (granted, if you know some of the official caste related terms) https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/industry/services/educa... Also, the example I have provided are from 15 years ago, when I appeared for these exams. I'm not going to bother finding verifiable information from back then but the figures I mentioned are pretty much what I saw.

Then this is probably news to you. Search for Minimum eligibility on these

https://pib.gov.in/newsite/PrintRelease.aspx?relid=147623

https://indiankanoon.org/doc/93076753/

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the name on the application is John Nguyen instead of Lamar Johnson it's pretty easy to tell.

So you're African American if your dad is African American and your mom is Asian American, but Asian American if it's the other way around?

When it comes to "an Asian American saying they're African American" or whatever, yes the name of the applicant (and therefore the race of the parent whose last name they have) would probably affect their ability to get away with claiming they're a different race.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#494
post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic idea is that there are lots of positive feedback loops, so initial conditions matter, and people can end up in a spiral up or down. The theory goes that adjusting things along the way can correct for those positive feedback loops. There are two big problems though: One is that it tries to correct by using race as a proxy. Middle class black americans and African immigrants get the advantages, poor asians ge…

The rationale also seems strange to me. If we're talking in economic terms, Chinese Americans (taking one subgroup) didn't start out wealthy but rather historically were a poor, marginalized group (etc Chinese exclusion act). So at least in that case initial conditions didn't seem to matter.

Initial conditions don't just include amount of wealth and oppression, but also culture. This is a much more sensitive subject though that most aren't willing to touch publicly.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not beat around the bush here. It's "messy" because it's racist against Asians.

How do you suggest we increase admissions for under-represented groups?

Why do groups matter at all? Shouldn't the individual be what we measure? How much is this individual disadvantaged, regardless of their group or set of groups? Adjust for that, rather than arbitrary groupings.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It consisted of going to some Indian dude’s house for an hour every Saturday for a summer. If that’s a game changer what does that say about American K-8 math education? Ironically, this is scouting round a theory I have long espoused – the failure of American K-8 math education has nothing to do with teaching , and everything to do with culture . Sure, going to some Indian dude's house every Saturday for a summer…

Criticizing culture is off limits, so here we are...

[deleted]

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think you'll find a receptive ear Yes, anyone neutral or right of center knows all about that unreceptive ear.

I'd have to know what arguments you're thinking of in particular to have any opinion on why they don't find a receptive ear. Without knowing that, broadly speaking: freedom of speech has never implied freedom to have people agree with you. And freedom of the press implies a lack of obligation to publicize information the owner of the press doesn't want to promulgate. It also implies an editorial right to modify publi…

I appreciate your willingness to engage in good faith.

The argument is simple: people should be free to include or exclude others in their private business/university/home/club as they see fit, and suffer free market consequences for doing so. This freedom was taken away by the civil rights act and the supreme court.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#498
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was with you right up to > But it’s a few thousand dollars if that (as low as under $1,000) which is reachable to all but destitute families. Selling my blue collar parents on $1,000 to slightly improve my chances of getting into a slightly better school so I could spend even more money? That’s absolutely not happening. I’d have gotten a pat on the back and told there’s no shame in community college. I think you mi…

You lost me at 'parents'. I grew up poor as shit in a single parent household. Food stamps. Hand me down clothes. My mom made damn sure that I went to the best possible schools, did all of the afterschool programs (including the expensive ones like band) and went to summer camp. She had to beg, borrow, save and sacrifice to make sure that happened. If you grew up in a two parent household you're already significantly…

I've got no interest in playing "who had it worse" but I think two or four or even a hundred apathetic parents put a child at more of a disadvantage than a single parent that actually cares.

My parents had literally zero involvement in my education. I was never helped with homework let alone walked through the college application process. My friend literally paid the $50 application fee for me because I couldn't get it from my parents (thanks Paul).

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why we can do things to make up for the fact that society has failed these children. If you make it so that only “merit” is considered - you’re only gonna get rich kids. (And I see this already through SV - it’s nothing but rich or well educated parents for the children here) What is the argument against letting children who have had a rough lot in their life get a slight lessening of their handicap when appl…

The merit-based school such as Styuvesant in NYC and Lowell in SF are both filled with rather poor Asian kids. The demographic profile of these two schools are substantially lower income than the very expensive cities they reside in. Edit: Got the names of the schools wrong.

You know that isn't an argument against what I said, right? Like, at all. It completely supports what I said.

Re: Asian-Americans fight back against school discrimination

#500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asians not getting into Harvard are the rare birds getting killed by wind turbines. The people who care about the rare birds are not anti-renewable, and people who complain about the birds dying actually don't care, they want to kill a lot more birds with their fossil fuels. So do I need to explain to you why killing birds is good? Or can I just point out that it's a stupid gotcha attempt.

You're commenting on a post about quotas for Asians saying that everyone who opposes quotas for Asians is racist. It seems plausible that they could just be Asian parents or something. Is the removal of gifted math classes from SF public schools due to the overrepresentation of Asians an example of wind turbines, in your view? Were quotas for Jews at Ivies bad? Would quotas for Asians at the same time have been bad?…

I'm replying to a WSJ editorial that literally starts by attacking the Democrats for saying diversity is a good thing.

Maybe those Asian parents should worry about what that implies from those that are pretending to be their temporary allies.

Post reply on HN