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Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

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Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#491

Post by stevewillows »

bonestamp2 wrote: post #313
stevewillows wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've considered getting a spotify family account, using separate accounts for major genres and one for browsing. I have a browsing profile for Netflix so I can freely explore without messing up the suggestions. For me, I listen to a lot of 40s, 50 - 60s lounge / exotica, early to mid 90s hip hop, 80s metal, and the standard indie stuff... then I have a bunch of chillwave and synthwave stuff that throws another wrench…

I use my family account for other uses too. I have a separate account just for Amazon Echo because I don't want my kid's selections to influence my main account suggestions. I also have my own account for the car, where explicit songs are disallowed. This allows me to listen to the music I like, but it avoid explicit songs for when my kids are in the car and that setting doesn't affect my main account.

it’s crazy that we need to jump through hoops. these providers should allow an opt out for specific devices or at least the ability to apply context.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#492

Post by cardanome »

Mehdi2277 wrote: post #483
cardanome wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One the more thought required to give feedback the less likely users give feedback. That is great! This means the people giving feedback would tend to be power users that are able to giver higher quality feedback. > As a side effect short content is very nice as finish/playtime become strong signals that require a user to do almost nothing. Perfect! It is clear by now that users vastly prefer short content that get…

Your first point isn’t true because most of the 5 star usage boils down to 1/5 stars and not 2-4. There are some users that use whole range and the info does have value. The main problem though is while that system may be better for certain users, it will be worse for the entire user base as you want a system that works well for both casual and power users. Really you want a system that works better for casual users…

My argument was based on the premise that votes from power users are more valuable as they better at judging the quality of the content. While the quality is partly subjective, it is not entirely so. Meaning power users, having more experience, know better what casual users should watch and would like then the casual users themselves. It is in the interest of the casual users for them to not be able to vote/their vote to count less.

I later suggested ways to make the hurdles for voting higher, which would fix the problems you mentioned. Required account age, maybe even how much content you need to have watched. Honestly, we could just filter out the people that only do 1/5 star votes. (With niche content of course there would be the issue of having no/just a few votes but voting would not be the only metric anyway.

I am very heretical towards common held UX believes and think trying to design for the lowest common denominator just results in all around awful experiences for everyone. We should rather strive to empower users.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#494

Post by raffraffraff »

distances wrote: post #430
anakaine wrote: post #419

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, how about giving me the ability to not hear songs with certain words in them. I'm not a tea totaller or holier than thou Nancy, but I really don't want to hear any more songs from the hood rapping about their gangsta money hoes and all the other things that are basically domestic violence, gun violence, racism, gang mentality and "I'm so tough" stories all in one. Spotify keeps recommending them even though I s…

You can disable songs with explicit lyrics in your settings, if that isn't too wide a net.

Hmm. I'd imagine you'd end up blocking a lot of good songs that simply have the word "fuck" in them, in a non-aggressive, non-sexual way, and may still have to endure lyrics that sound like a 13 year old bragging about how cool he is (yeah, that's mostly rap but not exclusively)

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#495

Post by feanaro »

Oddskar wrote: post #428
bluefirebrand wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For a long time we called this sort of user a "power user". People who are not necessarily technical but who love your application and use it extensively will appreciate power user functionality. It's probably fine to not have anything to appeal to power users, but those power users probably will be the sorts to be influencers to talk up your application to everyone they know.

It’s interesting isn’t it, why did we stop talking about power users and catering to their needs?

Because the masses are now large enough that you don't need to have an actually useful application. You just need to make it kind-of work and for it to become popular.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#496

Post by npteljes »

Regarding recommendations, Mixcloud's approach worked for me best. Starting from a genre, label or song, it lists popular mixes that often have been selected by DJs, radio presenters, curators etc. And when I find someone with a similar taste, their suggestions are wonderful. And often I find that songs work better in the context of the mixtape, than standing alone. But of course this depends on the type of music.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#497

Post by grvdrm »

3np wrote: post #358
brenainn wrote: post #319

A dislike button would be handy. There is that feature on some of the generated playlists, but I don't think they do anything. My two biggest issues with Spotify right now are: 1. Release Radar filled with re-releases and remixes, often from artists who have long since passed away. I want new music as in released for the first time. 2. Name collisions. I'm surprised this is an issue, but I will often get songs from d…

Agree on the above (though are duplicates really that much of a practical issue? I did discover some Russian rap through that). I'd like to add: 3. Discover Weekly stuck recycling through the same songs over and over again (it's also years since the algorithm found anything new for me, apart from name collisions) 4. Geo-language-locking. My CC will apparently only be accepted with its registered address in Spain. I b…

Curious: how repetitive is your listening history?

I also notice that my Discover Weekly and Daily 1-5 playlists are recycling much of the same material. But I also frequently listen to my Liked Songs (Otherwise, a fun experiment I tried last year: deleted all liked songs, all playlists, etc. to refresh my recommendations. I didn't pay close attention to how new suggestions compared to old, but it was one sort of trick to find new stuff rather than heading back to existing playlists. My Liked songs definitely aren't those from last year.

Also, this may seem counterintuitive but I regularly listen to playlists that seem like they are out of my interest pool (e.g. will deliberately check out a country playlist) as another way to move away from my own recommendations.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#498

Post by amelius »

emodendroket wrote: post #251
amelius wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem: you don't want to be DJ-ing at work, where your time is better spent on more important things than what music you will listen to.

To the contrary, that's precisely what I want to be doing at work often enough.

Heh, between DJ-ing and reading HN, do you find the time to do actual work?

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#499

Post by Mehdi2277 »

cardanome wrote: post #492
Mehdi2277 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first point isn’t true because most of the 5 star usage boils down to 1/5 stars and not 2-4. There are some users that use whole range and the info does have value. The main problem though is while that system may be better for certain users, it will be worse for the entire user base as you want a system that works well for both casual and power users. Really you want a system that works better for casual users…

My argument was based on the premise that votes from power users are more valuable as they better at judging the quality of the content. While the quality is partly subjective, it is not entirely so. Meaning power users, having more experience, know better what casual users should watch and would like then the casual users themselves. It is in the interest of the casual users for them to not be able to vote/their vot…

I don’t think counting there vote less is useful. Low quality signal that is plentiful is very often better than sparse higher quality signal. My past experience is working on recommendation systems at tiktok/snap. Having a lot of weak signal from casual users is extremely helpful for power users. Recommendations are often based on large amount of basic engagement data. I think a large aspect to TikTok’s system being considered strong at recommendation is because Ux is designed for very frequent simple signals.

I can also say working at companies like that generally any system changes require an ab test and long running back test. I’ve generally seen companies move from 5 star to simpler like/dislike system and those changes would have been ab tested and found that user experience is overall better. I don’t know for specific systems whether overall better was across all users or some users.

Re: Dislike button would improve Spotify's recommendations

#500

Post by andybak »

jonathankoren wrote: post #348
S0und wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2. "Name collision" unfortunately that's not Spotify's fault but the artist who set the wrong Artists ID. So instead of creating a new one for themself, they just use an already existing one with the same name. What I did in the last i just email the record label ( if they have one ) and ask them. In my case i listen to metal, but every know and then a mediocre rap song shows up in my RR. Usually because the artist i…

Entity resolution is a thing though, and the Discover Weekly algorithm actually tries to combine artists (possibly due to collaborations), which is what goes wrong. For example, I follow Cornelius, the Japanese guitarist. I liked several of his song. So the data indicates I’m a fan. I’ve been recommended a new song by a different Cornelius. This other guy is an African gospel singer. I don’t follow him. Never even pl…

Ha! I got excited at a festival to see "Cornelius" on the line-up. Turned out to be a local folk singer.
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