Earlier quoted context omitted.
i had to read this twice to make sure i was reading it correctly: and it might actually be better to donate the diff between 300k and 175k vs working in a slightly more ethical place for 175k this really triggered me. you basically say its ok to do shady things as long as you give something to the poor. sounds so much like "indulgence" in Christian churches where you could pay off your sins. sad. i'd say money is not…
I agree with you, but consider the possibility of donating the difference to a political organisation whose aim it is to eliminate shady behaviour by companies. There's a broader spectrum to donation than just donating to the poor.
Tech compensation in 2021
491–500 of 631 posts
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#492Earlier quoted context omitted.
What country? Serbia's GDP per capita is about 1/10 of the United States. Software developers make less money there because everyone makes less money there.
Man, some Eastern Europeans offered to write an app for me for $2000, and I assumed it was a scam since it'd be 50+ hours of work. Maybe I should hit those guys up again, if someone posting to HackerNews is making less as a programmer there than you'd make flipping burgers in California
I'm surviving, but I make way less than a kid flipping burgers in the US. But the good news is I'm alive and well and happy :) And it will get worked out in time.
I'm super happy with my life and it keeps getting better but when I hear first worlders, or even affluent third worlders, talk about money it sounds so crazy :3 Hearing someone say 100k a year is 'enough for a family', when working families where I am now get by decently on 300 MXN a day lol.
Perspective is everything. Just gotta keep working hard! If you ever need a freelancer who's even cheaper than Eastern Europeans I'm here for you <3
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#493Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything else being the same, it's better to make 300k than 175k/year. And not everything is the same, normally in those better paid jobs you have better Engineers, a lot of challenging problems, many nice perks, etc. What you don't normally have is flexibility to negotiate special conditions e.g. 4day work week. Also you don't get highly ethical companies, just average ones at that (and it might actually be better…
i had to read this twice to make sure i was reading it correctly: and it might actually be better to donate the diff between 300k and 175k vs working in a slightly more ethical place for 175k this really triggered me. you basically say its ok to do shady things as long as you give something to the poor. sounds so much like "indulgence" in Christian churches where you could pay off your sins. sad. i'd say money is not…
In ten years, you will have saved more than Oskar Schindler did during the entire Holocaust.
But of course you have taken one path to the Trolley problem and Schindler (who joined the Nazi party) has taken the other. Now it remains to be seen whether history remembers Oskar Schindler the Nazi Party member or user vincnetas who avoided FAANG as the more ethical.
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#494Earlier quoted context omitted.
Man, some Eastern Europeans offered to write an app for me for $2000, and I assumed it was a scam since it'd be 50+ hours of work. Maybe I should hit those guys up again, if someone posting to HackerNews is making less as a programmer there than you'd make flipping burgers in California
I'm a refugee from Nicaragua living in Mexico. I have legal status (thank god) but my paperwork is still a mess. So I freelance on Upwork. I'm surviving, but I make way less than a kid flipping burgers in the US. But the good news is I'm alive and well and happy :) And it will get worked out in time. I'm super happy with my life and it keeps getting better but when I hear first worlders, or even affluent third worlde…
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#49520 years experience, two books under my belt, and lead architect (with a CTO title) on several good sized projects and most I have ever gotten in $175k... every time I see an article like this, I think I am doing something "very wrong" I live about 40 miles outside of Boston. Edit: Looking at levels.fyi for Boston that actually puts me above the median[1]. Why the heck is Boston so low compared to other markets? Edit…
Congrats on making an income I could have only dreamed of as a college kid.
I've made very little money and FAANG-like money in my career. It has nothing to do with the difficulty of the work, the impact, or the hiring process. It's purely how badly the company wants "top" talent and the extent to which they want to / have to use money as a magnet.
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#496As someone who works in an Eastern European country, i also did a writeup on how much i've made over the years and how that figure has changed, while working for a local company: https://blog.kronis.dev/articles/on-finances-and-savings In short, this year i'll probably make around 18k Euros, in total. I guess that just goes to show how different the situation is depending on where you live and where you're employed.
You are grossly underpaid, even for eastern europe. Guys just across the border (or two) from you make 2x+ more, while paying next to nothing in taxes (5% I've heard, as faux contractors) and enjoying some of lowest CoL in europe - https://jobs.dou.ua/salaries/dynamics/
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#497If you're offering fabulous compensation packages that exceed the President of the United States for common software engineers with a little experience... wouldn't you want to use that to your advantage in your job postings? Every time I read an article like this I go looking for official numbers to validate what is being said. I'm not saying companies compensate poorly in SV. I just find it difficult to differentiat…
I've asked decision makers about this (or similar enough) before, and the answer was that they considered compensation to be a bit of a competitive advantage. I can see two reasons for this, first it being secret makes it harder for employees to effectively negotiate. Second, it being secret makes it more difficult to accuse the companies of doing something akin to wage fixing, which some of these have done before, so being careful about the appearance of impropriety makes some amount of sense.
Personally though, I don't find either of those particularly compelling. Especially given that they're de-facto public anyhow. There's two reliable ways to get salary information even if you don't trust self reported data:
1. h1b data, which shows only base salary and is hard to tease good data out of, because there isn't differentiation by role usually. Google for example shows "software engineer" or "software engineer manager" salaries that range from like 150K to like 300K (again, base salary), because they can cover like L4, L5, L6, L7, and even L8 (director) and above under essentially that one title. It's not super useful.
2. The careers pages for remote jobs in the US, or jobs in Colorado. Thanks to a law that took effect this year, Colorado requires companies to post their salaries (again, just salaries). Companies in California are also required to give you a salary range if you ask during an interview process. This doesn't give you stock or bonus numbers, but you can use these to verify that the salaries people talk about are legitimate.
Here's some examples, all taken from the careers page for the companies (careers.google.com, https://www.facebook.com/careers/jobs/, etc.). In each I've included the important part of the role description and what I think it maps to in the internal levelling scheme (see https://www.levels.fyi/ to compare these).
Google:
- Minimum salary of $132,000 (SWE III, L4)
- Minimum salary of $183,000 ("Technical Lead", probably L6+)
- $178,000 (Staff, L6)
- $209,000 (Staff, L6)
- $137,000 (Senior, L5)
- $125,000 (SWE III, L4)
- $120,000 (Senior Staff, L7, technically true but probably a data entry mistake somewhere)
- $183,000 (Senior Staff, L7)
- $252,000 (Something Director+, L8+)
Notably these are lower than salaries in SF or Seattle. Unfortunately, all the VP level jobs were in office and not in Colorado. Note again that this is before bonus (which starts at 15%+~5% based on performance, but for the higher level roles can reach like 30%+10% based on performance), and stock which starts at maybe 30-50% of your salary, but by Senior or Staff can be larger than your salary. I think some of these are also on the low side, 137,000 is below the bottom of the band for L5, my hunch here is some combination of data entry mistakes and willingness to accept L-1 for a role ("we'd prefer Staff but will take a Senior with some additional experience") so the salary requirements reflect that.Facebook:
- $111,000 ("Internal Software Engineer", E3?)
- $172,000 ("Software Engineer", E5?)
- $150,000 ("Software Engineer AI", E4?)
- $143,000 ("Software Engineering Manager", ??? this one confuses me)
- $206,000 ("Software Engineer iOS", E6/7?)
- $239,000 ("Director Data Engineering", E8+)
Much like above, I believe FB pays higher in SF than Colorado and this doesn't include bonus or stock, which are similar to Google's structure.Microsoft:
- $115,700 to USD $153,900 (Software Engineer 2, 61)
- $138,200 to USD $183,933 (Senior SWE, 63)
- $148,068-$169,233 (Senior Mech Engineer, 63?)
- $160,038-$183,933 (Senior Hardware Eng, 63?)
- $147,500 to $224,500 (Principal Software Engineering Lead, 64-66?)
- 153,100 to 200,700 (Principal SWE, 65)
MS has a bonus structure that's a bit worse than Google and FB, and pays a lot less stock.Amazon had one role, a Senior SDM role, with range $122,300-160,000. 160K is the max base salary Amazon pays outside of SF. They don't do bonuses except your first year, but as far as I know by the time you're higher level, their stock awards keep pace with Google and Facebook.
I also checked Lyft and Uber, which didn't appear to have roles that were Remote or in Colorado, and Stripe, Netflix, and Dropbox whose remote roles didn't list salaries. Someone at stripe should probably fix that, I expect they're technically violating the law right now. Salesforce included numbers which were oddly low. Oracle requires that you email them, which I think may also be a violation of the law, but its unclear.
Anyway, bit of a tangent at the end there, but I hope that helps to show that these aren't made up (and are sometimes publicized).
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#498Earlier quoted context omitted.
Eh, I helped several people job hunt this year, here are the offers accepted (total comp, not salary, which tends to cap around 200k). None of the people listed have more than 5 years of experience: 200k (fresh grad) 352k 452k 507k 412k
Why is it that I don't see these kind of numbers on levels.fyi?
Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#499Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a refugee from Nicaragua living in Mexico. I have legal status (thank god) but my paperwork is still a mess. So I freelance on Upwork. I'm surviving, but I make way less than a kid flipping burgers in the US. But the good news is I'm alive and well and happy :) And it will get worked out in time. I'm super happy with my life and it keeps getting better but when I hear first worlders, or even affluent third worlde…
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Re: Tech compensation in 2021
#500Man, every time I think I’ve finally caught up to the market rate, I find out I’m behind again I’m a senior FAANG coder making 350k TC, and it looks like I should be able to net 400-600k at this level if I go to Apple or Google. Hoo boy, looks like it’s leetcode time again…