Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer • Hacker News Board

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#491

Post by thanhhaimai » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

aosmond wrote: post #473

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #310

> “if they ask about time off in the first interview then they are never going to be there!” The fact that this attitude is common scares me when I'm doing interviews. Time off is incredibly important to me. What's the use of making a great income if you can't get the time off to enjoy it? The culture about the use of PTO varies wildly between companies. A friend of mine worked somewhere that supposedly gave 20 days…

As I once told a boss who tried to cancel my already approved vacation in a former job/company, you can't stop me from going. You can only stop me from coming back. Let me know which you prefer. (I really needed that vacation and I was done with bullshit.)

I had a manager who tried to cancel my vacation the day I was at the airport for the flight. I had given advance notice, and they agreed to it, especially when my vacation days have been maxed out for months. Obviously I went for it anyway, and left the team as soon as I come back.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#492

Post by redisman » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

xyzelement wrote: post #482

Spooky23 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re looking for a job. You have 10 minutes to ask questions that make you stand out, to a individual who probably cannot answer the question. You do you.

That's so spot on. Your Q&A session is your chance to learn something real and convey what you care about. A good question might me like "what's the hardest thing you had to do this year" or "how did you make decisions in cases of disagreement?" or something like that. It shows you're thinking about the job and whether you're a right fit. High quality questions say something about you. Low quality questions do too. W…

Different priorities I guess. Personally I’m exchanging my time for money and would like to know what kind of a deal I’m getting. I’m too old for all the fluff bullshit.

Yes yes yes I’m sure you’re changing the world and creating super exciting CRUD

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#493

Post by xyzelement » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

quadcore wrote: post #96

The 10x programmer is a silly myth. The idea that someone can produce in 1 day what another competent, hard working, similarly experienced programmer can produce in 2 weeks is silly. You know, 10x is an optimistic number here. Some programmers will do in 1 day what you wont achieve in a life time. And not understanding that makes you a bad programmer by my book simply because this is the foundation of the job. So let…

> You know, 10x is an optimistic number here. Some programmers will do in 1 day what you wont achieve in a life time

Exactly. There are many modes of that, and you named a few examples. Another example, company has 2 systems maintained by 10 people each. Someone comes in and figures out how to generalize one of the systems to both cases, so they free up 10 of those programmers to go do something else.

Or - 10 people are beating their head on a problem for months, someone comes along and says "it might be OK if we don't solve that problem, let's move on"

Or - someone figures out that a system/module doesn't need to be written because an out-of-the-box solution exists.

Like, I am not a 10X programmer in the sense that I can write 10X the code of the next guy. But have I prevented 10-people's-worth of wasted effort in my career? Yeah...

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#494

Post by m463 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

Sohcahtoa82 wrote: post #310

> “if they ask about time off in the first interview then they are never going to be there!” The fact that this attitude is common scares me when I'm doing interviews. Time off is incredibly important to me. What's the use of making a great income if you can't get the time off to enjoy it? The culture about the use of PTO varies wildly between companies. A friend of mine worked somewhere that supposedly gave 20 days…

I remember a friend who wanted to work for apple. He wanted to take time off before he started.

They said "hey, we shutdown anyway during the holidays you can take it then, just start now"

and of course, did he get to take that time off? NO.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#495

Post by Vinnl » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

DantesKite wrote: post #459

didibus wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your quote of the article made me think I was going to hate the advice, but then I realized you quoted it out of context, here's the full quote: > People might claim they have “signals” for these things… “if they ask about time off in the first interview then they are never going to be there!” But these are all bullshit. If you’re using signals like these you’re just guessing and turning away good candidates

That’s a pretty huge distinction. Can’t believe he misrepresented the author like that.

If you re-read the comment with the assumption that they were not trying to (mis)represent the author, it still makes sense, so I don't think that was the intention.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#496

Post by bluGill » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:30 PM UTC

theonething wrote: post #437

ghaff wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is especially true if the company uses "unlimited"/not-tracked/etc. time. Otherwise, unless you know someone at the place (and even then it can vary by group), you're left with making assumptions about norms that may not be accurate. Personally, I've never not used all my PTO in a given year and would consider being unable to do so a show stopper.

I really like the policy of "minimum mandatory time off" some companies have. That makes a big statement about where their priorities are in terms of care for their employees' well-being.

Banks tend to have this policy because there are a lot of ways to steel in ways that you can cover your tracks. But most of those ways require regular effort to cover your tracks, so if you are locked out of the office for at least two weeks someone is likely to notice. Note that this is two continuous business weeks. Nothing happens over Christmas so that doesn't count.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#497

Post by redisman » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:32 PM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #463

ingvul wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like it or not, when interviewing for a job, you're doing a sales presentation Maybe in the 90s. Nowadays it's becoming very balanced in the way that companies are the ones who are doing a sales presentation as well.

The company buys, the candidate sells. This is proven by which way the money flows - from the company to the employee. But both have to agree. You're right that a company will have to be willing to offer enough to get the candidate willing to sell. I recall interviewing a candidate long ago who was only interested in what the company could do for him. He never displayed any interest in the company or what he could do…

I understand that I have to bullshit people like you in interviews and pretend to care.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#498

Post by qez » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:33 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #293

faizshah wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the opposite of how you should want any knowledge worker to think. If you believe that there’s some innate ability that makes people 10x better at a skill than you rather than hours of practice and study then you are much less likely to acquire that skill or learn those skills efficiently. You need to have a growth mindset to be an effective knowledge worker not a fixed mindset. This is discussed in the book…

As your sports coach always said "You don't need talent to practice!" I'm not a huge believer of some mystical "innate ability" that people sometimes use to explain talent. Imagine a great concert pianist who plays flawlessly. After the concert, someone says, "Oh, you were born with such a wonderful gift of talent!" If I were that pianist, I'd be kind of offended--it totally ignores the decades of daily practice it t…

The capacity to practice is itself partially innate. Take a person with ADHD - they will naturally have a harder time practicing piano. I myself was unable to practice piano as a child, but for different reasons.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#499

Post by philosopher1234 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:34 PM UTC

khazhoux wrote: post #458

beebmam wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my 20 years of industry at both small and large tech companies, I couldn't disagree more with you. I'd also appreciate if you toned down the insults.

It should not be an insult to be told that there are people more skilled than you, though. It is hubris to think otherwise. Are you saying in 20 years, you haven't met any engineers that were head and shoulders noticeably more productive than their peers, in terms of code volume+quality?

There are undoubtedly developers who are 10x more productive. But I doubt its because they are born smarter. There are developers who are 100x more invested in their work, and only 10x more productive.

Re: Things I’ve learned in my 20 years as a software engineer

#500

Post by 908B64B197 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

itsibitzi wrote: post #48

pjc50 wrote: post #6

This is a very insightful list. But there is one thing I'd quibble with: while it's inherently a super-subjective metric, I would say that 10x programmers do exist. Both in the "can support a company by themselves" sense and the "mad lone genius" sense. Not all the 10x programmers are good at working with other people or on other people's ideas. 0.1x programmers are often lost or afraid, although they may just be uni…

Saying 10x programmers are a myth because it's crazy that someone could do in 1 day what another could do in 1 week makes the assumption that both programmers in the example have the same amount of context, background understanding, and experience. The benefit of talented engineers comes from the fact that they avoid costly pitfalls - not that they pump out more code per hour worked. I feel this "10x programmers are…

> I feel this "10x programmers are a myth" attitude comes from a good place of wanting to promote harmonious working and skill-up junior engineers

When comparing juniors you observe the same distribution.

I've met 10x straight out of college who ran around other new grads.